T30/T48/T60

[commander_dan]

2c from a fellow bass lover. I chose T30 for the extension and I can tell you that with modern day track mastering being as beastly as it is, volume is NOTHING if you can't hit the low notes. But, I'm fussy. I dont like hearing low end drop off when content is there, it is not pleasing at all. Choose wisely.

[Marflinger]

2c from a fellow bass lover. I chose T30 for the extension and I can tell you that with modern day track mastering being as beastly as it is, volume is NOTHING if you can't hit the low notes. But, I'm fussy. I dont like hearing low end drop off when content is there, it is not pleasing at all. Choose wisely.

Interesting, thank you.

May i ask you what genres you run through your t30, how you stack them (experiences with v-plating?) and what venue size indoor/outdoor you cater?

[commander_dan]

Interesting, thank you.

May i ask you what genres you run through your t30, how you stack them (experiences with v-plating?) and what venue size indoor/outdoor you cater?

I mainly do outdoor gigs/private parties (that being said, got a semi indoor gig coming next week on a rooftop). Usually anywhere between 2 and 6 cabs, and usually V-plated (even with 6). V-plate is a very worthy addition outdoors, we usually try to seal the mating edges of the cabs with tube lagging as quite a lot of air pressure is lost there. Pic attached of a 6x setup outdoors.

I play 100% EDM spread between D&B, house, techno, breaks, and hiphop.

I'd say the blast zone coverage area of that setup outdoors is apprx 100m² so it's not massive, but its loud and low enough.

[Marflinger]

I play 100% EDM spread between D&B, house, techno, breaks, and hiphop.

Which is already sort of the genres where the listener has a faible for lower frequencies...
Thank you for that insight!
Looks nice :)
And thank you as well for the idea with the gaps, will keep that in mind.

I'll continue figure out the hornresp-simulating and plot them against each other; but the handy aspect of the T30 comes again; compact size clearly visible in your pictures.
I will also take your 3012LF in there and see what other drivers would differ from there...
will update this here when i got enough time in there and got a seemingly solid result.

[Joman116]

Interesting, thank you.

May i ask you what genres you run through your t30, how you stack them (experiences with v-plating?) and what venue size indoor/outdoor you cater?

I mainly do outdoor gigs/private parties (that being said, got a semi indoor gig coming next week on a rooftop). Usually anywhere between 2 and 6 cabs, and usually V-plated (even with 6). V-plate is a very worthy addition outdoors, we usually try to seal the mating edges of the cabs with tube lagging as quite a lot of air pressure is lost there. Pic attached of a 6x setup outdoors.

I play 100% EDM spread between D&B, house, techno, breaks, and hiphop.

I'd say the blast zone coverage area of that setup outdoors is apprx 100m² so it's not massive, but its loud and low enough.

That subwoofer setup looks absolutely lethal! Good stuff! Wish I could hear it.

[commander_dan]

That subwoofer setup looks absolutely lethal! Good stuff! Wish I could hear it.

Cheers, she punches hard

[Marflinger]

Soooo,

i think i figured at least the hornresp horn modeling part correct.

The following figures resulted:

Tuba30, external width 30", dual 12" Driver (applies to all)

Here the Stack of 4, V-Plated, Driver is the 3012LF, max SPL:

T30 30 dual 3012LF 4Stack maxSPL VPlate.png (10.67 KiB) Viewed 97 times

Here the Stack of 4, V-Plated, Driver the LaVoce, max SPL:

T30 30 dual LaVoce 4Stack maxSPL VPlate.png (9.97 KiB) Viewed 97 times

Here The T30 single vs stack of 4 without V-Plate, max SPL:

Titan 48, external width 30", dual12" loaded (applies to all)

Here the Stack of 4, V-Plated, LaVoce Driver, max SPL:

T48 30 dual LaVoce 4Stack maxSPL VPlate.png (10.64 KiB) Viewed 97 times

Here the T48 single vs. Stack of 4 without V-Plate, max SPL:

T48 30 dual LaVoce 4Stack vs single maxSPL.png (11.69 KiB) Viewed 97 times

So, first of all: if anyone feels there has to be an error, give it to me please.

Assuming this (more or less) is correct, it seems as the T30 really goes a bit lower, even in stacks of 4.
The difference between T30 4Stack and T48 4Stack is just around that 5db (Comparing 4 cabs to 4 cabs, so half the Volume of space from the Cabs)
Doing 8 T30 stacked V-Plated:

T30 30 dual LaVoce 8Stack maxSPL VPlate.png (10.79 KiB) Viewed 97 times

To compare the same Volume of cabs - we even surpassed the T48 limits. T48 brings a dent at around 80 Hz, from there on the T30 (double cab count, same volume) tops it out.
And the roll-off down below is smoother within the T30 stacks, no matter which variant.

The limiting point seems to be the Driver, not the cab itself.

So, to get to my questions from the beginning of ths trip:

- I don't think there is something the T48 would achieve i could not reproduce by just building more of the T30. The better upper range extincts within the same volume of cabs (there is doulbe the amount of drivers included)

- i need double the amount of drivers and amp power to achieve that with the T30, on the same power there is around 5 db difference but still the T30 plays lower
BUT the storage space needed still the half. The result of 8 T30 will blow me away anyway, even if the simulation is typically of by 2-3 db.

- The Hornextension doesn't seem to be in any sensible relation comparing the size of the horn to the result. I don't think i will follow that, maybe when i run out of ideas what to build next.

As the driver used limits the output situation, i will keep an eye open for other options that may fit (and will come back with the questions about them when they simulate better)

If anyone sees errors in there, please hint me on them i will try to fix that. Or any ideas which alternatives to simulate.

Edit: And in addition, the approximation with doubling the amount of cabs gives you x db, plating them gives you y db: Somehow not that far away, but it's just not that linear and effects every band in another way. And the plain calculating does not include limits of the driver you achieve, they come in first.

[Seth]

I think that red part of the trace indicates that, at that voltage, cone travel exceeds Xmax. Reduce the voltage until you get all solid black above the high pass frequency and that will be your max SPL plot... and maximum voltage.

Good job BTW. Thumbs up.

[Marflinger]

Also the black parts are limited by either excurson, voltage ore maximum power intake; but all driver related. Thats just how hornresp works, driving every frequency until there is a limit reached, when asking for max spl.

I'd also assume to take the lowest dent in a given area, and take that as a max spl you can drive that combination safely into.

For the t30 4stack plated i'd say its around 143db from 28 to 60, from there around 145db. This will be measured when built and eq'ed respectivly.
The t48 4stack plated would be around 147db from 35 to 70, and then probably quite flat upwards from there.
But all the curve does so far is showing the limits of the cab/driver combination.

I tend to go for the t30 so far tbh.
Also a bit more flexible, in terms of doing whatever small private events and picking just 4 of them; compact as hell when nothing more is needed.
and extendable as well, 2*stack of 4 or 2*stack of 6 or even 8 would be an option as well as just 4*stack of x cabs.
And lining them to an endfiring array would be an option too, sometimes helpful to have it somewhat more directive than just a ball in every direction.

First of all the weather is going to get better, and i can finally finish the first pair of dr's. So i got a bit of time left to think this through :)

[Marflinger]

Looking around for possible Amping situations: When going the T30 way, i can run one powersoft K10 to power up to 6 cabs per channel oO?
So the K10 gives me 6000 W @ 2 Ohm stable, not bridged.
Using the above LaVoce-Driver (400W program/800W peak) i end up at 5000 W program/8000 W Peak when inside the T30 Seriel (16 Ohm), and then Parallel 6 Cabs (not really 2 Ohm, rather 3 or 2.x).
This should end up right below the maximum power and when limited properly not damage the drivers; end up slightly below the max SPL but would be..just...1 Rack unit high oO?
This is spooky.

Th K20 would slightly exceed the drivers limit, e.g. make the drivers capability fully usable, also up to twelve cabs.
And the other way, a K3 bridged (7200W/4 Ohm) would happily take on 4 cabs including amp headroom (4 Cabs 6400 W Peak @ 4 Ohm) so i would need to take one K3 per stack of 4 (or accepting the "underpowering" same as K10 just for 6 cabs one bridged)


Two K3 used equal +- one K10 used; i couldn't find the K20 anywhere.
[For the DRs i got on a Wharfedale (which is CRV here) and will probably take that for now. Gonna test tuesday]
This would end up in maximum 4 Rack units used for a f*ckload of sound, which feels super weird. (including the dsp!)