Dayton PPA800DSP

[gliderguy3]

I find this amp intriguing, as it can take a direct bluetooth signal and also with two amps it can self-configure into left and right channels (TWS), making for a clean system that only needs a power cord to the left and right sides, and absolutely no signal path wires anywhere outside of the amplified signal from the box containing the plate amp (probably the sub) to the top. I occasionally might be called upon to host a small dance party for a school or church, but it is not something I do a lot. I am wondering what BFM top and sub might be best be able to use the output from this plate amp for a very portable but very simple rig. I have seen the other comments on other threads about just get a driverack, but if I only have to carry 4 boxes and a phone or laptop to set up the sound, that might be ideal. I also saw limitations on how low the 200w HF section can cross over possibly being 1K but not sure if that was this plate amp or another. If you guys were building a BFM system to get maximum capability from this plate amp, how would you go about it? I am picturing probably a titan 39 paired with either an Otop12 or if I am feeling ambitious, maybe DR200's. I have a very capable woodworker in my church who might really enjoy building a pair of DR200's. I see the plate amp is rated at 4 ohms, and most of the drivers for BFM subs are 8 ohm meaning I am probably leaving a lot of capability unused unless I have a pair of subs on each side in parallel. That is probably getting too complicated for my envisioned very-streamlined but capable portable sound.

So if you were going to build a BFM system to wring the most out of this amp, and you were limited to one top and one sub per side, how would you proceed?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The high passed amp won't go below 1kHz, so it's not suitable to run mains.

[Bruce Weldy]

tonly needs a power cord to the left and right sides, and absolutely no signal path wires anywhere outside of the amplified signal from the box containing the plate amp (probably the sub) to the top.

Nope. First of all, the bluetooth connection is taking L and R from your source and combining them into a mono signal - so, if you're looking for stereo, that ain't happening. As far as signal timing on bluetooth - I don't know that I'd trust both amps to recieve the signal at the same time without a lag on one or the other. Might work fine, might not.

As Bill said, you can't use it for subs and tops as the "High" amp has a hard high pass at 1k.....that's what I was hoping to do with it on my SLA/T24 combo. Since that didn't work, I put a passive high pass crossover in the T24. The amp is in the SLA - it sends the power to the sub, which then send the high passed signal back up to the SLA. The "High" Amp doesn't get used at all.

An OT12 with a T39 would be a good match, but you'd have to put a subwoofer plate amp in the sub and there would be no Bluetooth capability onboard.

The Dayton fits and SLA with some modifications. It's not gonna' fit an OT12, but it could go in the back of a T39. But, controls would be hard to get to with it situated down low.

Bottom line, if you are planning to have two tops and two subs, you could get an amp with the built-in crossover and use one side to power tops and one for subs - and run mono. You just won't have limiting with the cheaper amps.

By the time you buy 2 of the Daytons, you could get a used driverack and a couple of used lightweight amps to get everything you need for the same money. Then get a little bluetooth receiver if it's that big of a deal.

To carry it a bit further......going straight from bluetooth into the Dayton gives you absolutely no way to EQ the system to the venue without carrying a laptop to change the settings on the Daytons at every place you go (and you'd have to do it twice).

Bottom line - I use the bluetooth in my garage for my SLA/T24 setup with the Dayton. But for taking it on the road, there will always need to be a mixer.

[gliderguy3]

Hmm. I get the 1khz high pass is a deal breaker, that this plate amp may be great to jam in the back of a medium to fairly big DR and need separate amplification for the sub. However, I know that many bluetooth systems that use TWS which actually stands for "True Wireless Stereo" absolutely CAN get stereo with two separate units, and they are smart enough to self-configure into left and right channels. I don't know what the millisecond tolerance is to keep it seeming stereo with reasonable stereo imaging, but it seems to work. I have a very inexpensive pair of Soundcore boomboxes that do exactly that. You can pair gobs of them together for party mode, or you can pair EXACTLY two of them in TWS mode and get discreet left and right channels. Party mode does seem to have sloppy timing compared to TWS, and you can sometimes hear a speaker or two go out of phase when using party mode. If this system is falsely advertising itself as TWS when it is not is one thing, but saying it won't do it like that capability doesn't already exist is quite another.

I was hoping with the DSP that it might be as simple as having some Dayton app on my phone or laptop bluetooth source and be able to EQ on site without extra boxes. I see that the DSP looks to be a hardwired usb connection to a laptop, and that in itself wouldnt automatically be a deal breaker. If I played any venues it would likely be the same two or three where I would have access earlier, and I could save EQ presets. I don't quite need the flexibility of a true DJ that can show up at a venue he has never been to and EQ out almost anything on the fly and roll with it.

Minimal wires for setup is what I am going for. is there another plate amp set with DSP that might do what I want to do, or if I want to go this route, do I need one of these in the back of a DR top (or maybe two DR tops per side if I want to go big) and a separate Sub plate? I get that I could buy half a rack of used crown amps and get way more watts per dollar, than buying either two or four plate amps but I want to buy simplicity here.

[Bruce Weldy]

Hmm. I get the 1khz high pass is a deal breaker, that this plate amp may be great to jam in the back of a medium to fairly big DR and need separate amplification for the sub. However, I know that many bluetooth systems that use TWS which actually stands for "True Wireless Stereo" absolutely CAN get stereo with two separate units, and they are smart enough to self-configure into left and right channels. I don't know what the millisecond tolerance is to keep it seeming stereo with reasonable stereo imaging, but it seems to work. I have a very inexpensive pair of Soundcore boomboxes that do exactly that. You can pair gobs of them together for party mode, or you can pair EXACTLY two of them in TWS mode and get discreet left and right channels.

I'm not familiar with the TWS...Does the Dayton say it has that now? I don't think mine has it...could be wrong. I don't understand how you'd tell the amp which channel (L or R) to receive. Anyway, that's interesting.

Minimal wires for setup is what I am going for. is there another plate amp set with DSP that might do what I want to do, or if I want to go this route, do I need one of these in the back of a DR top (or maybe two DR tops per side if I want to go big) and a separate Sub plate? I get that I could buy half a rack of used crown amps and get way more watts per dollar, than buying either two or four plate amps but I want to buy simplicity here.

I don't know of any other plate amps that can do what you want...in fact, the Dayton is about the only one of it's kind that I've seen that isn't an OEM replacement for an existing cab. The problem with adding a separate plate amp for the sub is - how do you get the signal from the Amp with bluetooth down to the sub amp? The Dayton has a signal output .... but, I'm guessing that is from the signal input stage. I don't know if the the bluetooth would feed that part of the signal path or not.

I get wanting as few cables as possible, but with what you want, you'd still have two power cables. With a setup using an amp, you'd only need three total cables - one to power the rack and one 4 conductor speaker cable to each Top/Sub.

With a 4 channel amp like this https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... -amplifier , you could get stereo with a built in crossover and it's only 13 pounds. It's not top of the line, but for what you are describing, it sounds like a decent solution.

[gliderguy3]

The experience I have with consumer grade TWS (perhaps that is the only kind) is the unit your bluetooth source is connected to defaults to one channel, left or right. On my Soundcore speakers the master channel shows a blue logo and is the left channel always. The other speaker will show a white connected icon that is consistent with the RCA "White is Right" scheme. It is not a perfect solution, I estimate that there is only about 10 dB of channel separation, but it is enough to get reasonable stereo effects.

It appears to work like this, as best as I can tell: the left - lets call it master channel- that is directly connected to the bluetooth source then connects to the other amp, and does some tech wizardry with some kind of timing signal or communication to keep both channels in time sync. I don't actually know, but I suspect the master amp probably buffers a certain number of milliseconds so it can keep the second channel fed if there is a small glitch in data transfer from the master channel to the slave channel. It has to be just a few milliseconds as I can also input a 3.5mm aux source into one of the speakers and the other seems in time and phase. I have no idea what an average human can hear in regards to phase delay, but I am guessing it is probably takes a bit. If the delay was always constant it would probably sound o.k. just like stereo sounds ok if you are not directly equidistant from both speakers.
I agree that I would not want to trust two bluetooth signals to stay in sync just because they are being sent from the same source into two different amps that are electronically identical, I know the bluetooth buffer works in strange ways and does not always stay constant. Party mode on my same soundcore speakers can be observed doing this, as it varies enough you can hear phase changes.

Perhaps what I am really wanting is just an over-the-top bluetooth stereo set of powered monitors that can maximize the output of this plate amp or a pair of these amps, since it seems to be the only thing in its class for a grab-and-go sound solution that can sound reasonably good with a generic EQ preset if it is loaned out to people who can pair a bluetooth device but wouldn't want to set up anything that could possibly be wired wrong. I have also considered perhaps an omni 15 tallboy full range with a pair of 12 inch bass drivers in parallel to get a 4 ohm load, but it looks like the midrange driver crosses over at 600hz, meaning it would have to be on the low frequency side too, leaving just the piezo drivers on the HF side. That would get me down to two boxes and all the wiring except for the power cords could be internal. I am thinking there are no cost-competitive commercially available bluetooth units that could match the output of a cab like the Omni 15 tallboy, even considering doing it the way I propose is not the cheapest way to get that level of performance.

I suppose the other build that may be a good candidate for this amp would be the larger SLA pro, but looking at how much an Omni 12 runs ahead of it on efficiency, the Omni 15 tallboy configured as a 2 x 12 would probably be able to play louder (and certainly lower) even if it couldn't ideally use the HF/LF 1k crossover point and doesn't load the amp to its full capability.

This is a fun exercise, and looking at the Omni Tallboy plans, it looks like perhaps one of the easiest ways to get going. Thank you both for indulging me and pointing out potential roadblocks.

The only thing that might be a step beyond would be some lithium 12 v batteries and car audio amplifiers in similar cabinets, or contained in a small riser at the base of each cabinet so as to not monkey about with the internal volumes or soundwave propagation pathways. That would still require a box that has the DSP, crossovers, and bluetooth modules, but that would probably throw any idea of stereo separation out the window totally. I get that we would be talking a large RV or boat sized battery in each speaker to be able to run for a few hours at over 100 watts average power.

[Tom Smit]

@gliderguy3, have you seen RubiconProSound's little system? Scroll down on the provided link.
https://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/view ... hp?t=25994