Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

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kesslari
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Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#1 Post by kesslari »

Prelude: I wrote and posted this thread on TB. Some of the data (like the explanation of what the O10 is) is redundant for this forum, but I didn't want to rewrite it.<end prelude>

I finally got a chance to A/B my two "somewhat unusual" cabinets - a BFM Omni10 "widebody" and an LDS 15/6/1 (it's built to nEarful specs, but so as to avoid upsetting the purists I won't call it a fEarful).

I know that the BFM Omni 15 would be a closer comparison to the nEarful 15/6/1, but that's not what I have, and as a player (rather than a benchmarking entity) I'm interested in comparing the horses I've got, rather than the potentially best matched horses :D.

The Omni10 is the predecessor to the Jack 210, and mine is built at the 23" wide spec for additional bass. It's loaded with Deltalite 2510's, the recommended speaker for this enclosure, and has 4 piezos with a 3 way switch to select 0/2/4 piezos. I almost always leave the piezos on. I've gigged this cab in a lot of contexts, love the sound but found myself thinking that I might be missing out on some "bodyshaking" low end on my funk gigs. So I got the nEarful.

The LDS 15/6/1 is built to nEarful specs - 3015FL 15", 6ND410 midrange, and a horn, with the taller layout and shelf ports of the fEarful design. It is, I think, about as close as LDS gets to a fEarful and is a great sounding cab. Having only had it for a few weeks, it's only seen one gig and one rehearsal, and performed well in both contexts.


Physical Comparison
The LDS is taller and thinner than the Omni, giving it a smaller footprint and a more graceful appearance. The Omni is a hair lighter.

The LDS measures 30"x20"x16" and weighs 55 lbs.
The Omni10 measures 26"x23"x16" and weighs 50 lbs.

Photo of both cabs (yeah, I'm not much of a photographer either) <edit - at the link - pic is too big for the BFM forum>
But you can see that the Omni is wider and squatter.
Image at http://www.doumbek.com/personal/two_cabs.jpg

Sound Comparison
I used a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 to compare these cabs, with a Zon Sonus Special and an Ibanez ATK, recorded with a Zoom H2.
These are my subjective impressions - I don't have the tools to do a complex dynamic set of measurements.

The Omni is significantly louder than the LDS at the same settings - not surprising given that it is a 4 ohm cab (and the LDS is 8 ohms) and that it is horn loaded. I need to turn the amp's master volume up 2 clicks to roughly match the Omni's volume with the LDS, and each "click" on the GB Master is a significant chunk of oomph.

The Omni has a very strong midrange character, which I like a lot. The piezos are very transparent on the top end. Those who fear piezos for "harshness" would be very pleasantly surprised. The overall sound seems very natural to me - perhaps because I've used it for so long.

The 15/6/1 has more bottom to it. It more easily gives those "feel them in your gut" lows. The midrange character is very present, but very different than the Omni, more "noticeable" and less "natural" to my ear. The LDS has an L-pad for the midrange, and I imagine that spending more time with it I can get it to sound more natural. For these recordings the L-pad was set about 2/3 of the way up. I can see myself trying it higher.

With the lows really boosted the Omni can approach the low end of the 15/6/1, but it still has a qualitatively different feel. Down low, the 15/6/1 "moves" more, sonically. I'm not sure what that means, but I "feel" the lows more from the 15/6/1.

Samples below. One day I'll have the patience to make sure that I record "good" samples, but that day is not today, so please forgive the suckage in the playing.


Samples
Fingerstyle funk - Omni10
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/omni_fingerfunk.mp3

Fingerstyle funk - LDS 15/6/1
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/lds_fingerfunk.mp3

Fingerstyle funk - Omni with bass boosted
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/omni_fi ... k_deep.mp3

Slap - Omni10
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/omni_slap.mp3

Slap - LDS 15/6/1
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/lds_slap.mp3

The different character of the mids really comes through when playing melodically. Here is a bit of Jeff Titus' "The Glass" - a melody I'm currently working on.
Omni:
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/omni_glass.mp3

LDS:
http://www.doumbek.com/personal/lds_glass.mp3

Postscript:
I like the tonal qualities of the O10 better, except in the low end. It really is a great cab, and if I wasn't playing dance music with no PA support, it would be a done deal.
I have a feeling that I'd love an O10 or O10.5/Titan combination, but the titan is just plain bigger than I want to haul.
I might consider a smaller sub with the O10.5 as an eventual solution. I had really wanted a one cabinet solution, and the LDS does pretty well on that front, and perhaps with some tweaking it will really come together tonally as much as the O10.
Alternately, if any of you have suggestions for a smaller sub (maybe even the fEarful sub?) that would pair well passively with an O10 or )10.5, I'd be interested in hearing them.
If God had meant for us to use flatwound strings he'd have stopped our hearing at 500 Hz.
- Bill Fitzmaurice

SeisTres
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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#2 Post by SeisTres »

where's the graphs? I like graphs :(
Built:6 t39, t18, 4 Jack10, 2 autotuba, 2 SLA,2 wedge, 2 TT, 2 Tritrix, curved sla, 2 otop212, 2 SLA pros, Ported 8" sub, 2 ported 210, dual ported 8" sub

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DJPhatman
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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#3 Post by DJPhatman »

kesslari wrote:I like the tonal qualities of the O10 better, except in the low end. It really is a great cab, and if I wasn't playing dance music with no PA support, it would be a done deal.
I have a feeling that I'd love an O10 or O10.5/Titan combination, but the titan is just plain bigger than I want to haul.
I might consider a smaller sub with the O10.5 as an eventual solution. I had really wanted a one cabinet solution, and the LDS does pretty well on that front, and perhaps with some tweaking it will really come together tonally as much as the O10.
Alternately, if any of you have suggestions for a smaller sub (maybe even the fEarful sub?) that would pair well passively with an O10 or )10.5, I'd be interested in hearing them.
Omni 15, Deltalite 2515 loaded.

And, remember that the Omni 10 chart is 4 Ohm, while the Omni 15 is 8 Ohm!
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

kesslari
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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#4 Post by kesslari »

I'm not a bigtime graph-reading expert...
And of course the chart is comparing the O10 to 2 flavors of O15.

Does it suggest (I'm looking at the relative parallel-ism of the curves) that the obsoleted O15 (with the 3015LF) would sound a lot like the O10, only louder and with more low end?
The newer O15 graph is less parallel (but with still stronger low end).
If God had meant for us to use flatwound strings he'd have stopped our hearing at 500 Hz.
- Bill Fitzmaurice

kesslari
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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#5 Post by kesslari »

I think that my implied question in my original post got missed, so I'll try asking it directly.

I really love the tone of my bass through my O10 and my O10.5.
But - in some situations I want more low end, and using them together doesn't fully meet that need.
and - I don't want to haul a Titan.

Is there a a smaller sub that could be crossed over appropriately (so the lovely low mids around 300-500K would still be coming from the Omni) and would work passively and have a chance of sounding good with either the O10 or the O10.5?
The low end of the fEarful makes me think that a fEarful sub might do the trick. I have the wattage to drive it.
Or would the combination of horn-loaded and direct radiating designs cause a black hole and make the universe implode?

The alternative, for now, would be to continue to play with eq to get my nEarful low-mids sounding right to my ear.
If God had meant for us to use flatwound strings he'd have stopped our hearing at 500 Hz.
- Bill Fitzmaurice

WB
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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#6 Post by WB »

kesslari wrote:Or would the combination of horn-loaded and direct radiating designs cause a black hole and make the universe implode?
In theory yes, but despite my best efforts (sigh) I am unable to provide proof.
Tomorrow I'm going to stop procrastinating - WB

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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#7 Post by Monomer »

Jack's a hybrid design,so the the omni tops.


come to think of it, most are (in some way or another...)




Your problem would be finding a direct radiating cab that'll keep up with your omnis. Solution: The Jack 12/15
-AutoTuba; Tang Band 8 inch (x1)
-T39; KappliteLF, 22 wide (x2)
-More to come!

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#8 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

kesslari wrote:
Is there a a smaller sub that could be crossed over appropriately (so the lovely low mids around 300-500K would still be coming from the Omni) and would work passively and have a chance of sounding good with either the O10 or the O10.5?
O12, using the 2x10 option.

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Tom Smit
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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#9 Post by Tom Smit »

Aw nuts! I was just going to say what Bill did! Well, I did not think about the 2x10 option, just an O12.

Edit-for clarification, and honesty.
Last edited by Tom Smit on Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
TomS

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Robby Hoinsky
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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#10 Post by Robby Hoinsky »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:O12, using the 2x10 option.
What about a T18 or T24? The omni 12 is pretty big.

Robby
Authorized BFM Builder
http://www.ArtofNoiseAudio.com
Retailer of Eminence and Dayton loudspeakers

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Shoot-out - BFM Omni10 vs LDS 15/6/1

#11 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Robby Hoinsky wrote:
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:O12, using the 2x10 option.
What about a T18 or T24? The omni 12 is pretty big.

Robby
Hoffman's Iron Law. Subs must be larger than tops, a lot larger.

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