Do it! This was super easy to do the bracing with scrap plywood too. And a good part of the bracing on these came from some old tuba60 that were built absolutely horrifically and sounded like a rattly wet fart, someone just gave them to us years ago. We pulled panels off with a oscillating tool and planed them down to be presentable. I think there's something poetic about the trash tuba60s finding some sort of purpose
T48 Club Installation
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- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 pm
- Location: Seattle WA
Re: T48 Club Installation
8x 24" T48 3015LF loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
Re: T48 Club Installation
Wyland! Thanks so much for the update! I always enjoy your gig reports.
Congratulations on the great success. Those cabs look absolutely perfect. Way to go on the top notch construction!
I also enjoyed the read. Thanks for posting that up too. I looked on YouTube for some video of the venue, but didn't find any. I'd love to get a bit of a tour and see them in action if you're ever inspired to do so. I have no plans to visit Seattle. But, if I ever head up that way, I'll definitely check it out... even though I'll not blend in too well among the 20 somethings.
Thanks again for the report and a big thumbs up on the project well done.
Congratulations on the great success. Those cabs look absolutely perfect. Way to go on the top notch construction!
I also enjoyed the read. Thanks for posting that up too. I looked on YouTube for some video of the venue, but didn't find any. I'd love to get a bit of a tour and see them in action if you're ever inspired to do so. I have no plans to visit Seattle. But, if I ever head up that way, I'll definitely check it out... even though I'll not blend in too well among the 20 somethings.
Thanks again for the report and a big thumbs up on the project well done.
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8Β½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8Β½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
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- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 pm
- Location: Seattle WA
Re: T48 Club Installation
Thank you Seth! I think this was the most work I've ever done in 1 month in my life 
I will post videos of the shows on YouTube later. And maybe I'll upload a video walkthrough of my signal flow. It's sorta complicated with the matrix processing between the system DSP, matrix DSP, and console. The system processor didn't have nearly enough IO to do what I wanted so I had to offload some of it to another unit. I honestly don't even know where to start
it's complicated on the back end but I've made it easy for the house engineers when I'm not around. I've never designed anything even half as complicated as this, and it sorta blew my mind when it just worked 
but because I've aux fed and grouped things the way that I have, I have an unbelievable level of control of the djs mic volume on either side of all 4 zones without causing the house techs too much grief. You know how djs are with pointing the mic all over the place. Plus this means with quick programmable preset buttons on the AHM that I can quickly reorient the room for comedy nights with one button. Anyways in the meantime here's the rack.
8x 24" T48 3015LF loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
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- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 pm
- Location: Seattle WA
Re: T48 Club Installation
Here are a couple clips of the venue for you Seth! It's a pretty decent sized space and the lighting team went absolutely crazy on that LED grid
I guess that's what happens when you hire a bunch of NERDS
it sounds as good as it looks too. I mean this has to be the most coherent sounding show room in town. We are using danley gear all the time and I never heard a piece of danley kit that made me feel the way these tops do. I am absolutely in love with these things. You can hear every word the rappers mumble 

https://youtu.be/XgnDpNNjk3Q?si=Xa3E-EguO_8p_90l
https://youtu.be/IJc6dQPmz34?si=YXNXGtMEsvIlPOp_
https://youtu.be/pzpZQbPlvOQ?si=NLJcXDiyUHcR75u2
https://youtu.be/AZ_FAvHzDxs?si=AKhLZE_ahiarRti9
https://youtu.be/XgnDpNNjk3Q?si=Xa3E-EguO_8p_90l
https://youtu.be/IJc6dQPmz34?si=YXNXGtMEsvIlPOp_
https://youtu.be/pzpZQbPlvOQ?si=NLJcXDiyUHcR75u2
https://youtu.be/AZ_FAvHzDxs?si=AKhLZE_ahiarRti9
8x 24" T48 3015LF loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
Re: T48 Club Installation
"and the lighting team went absolutely crazy on that LED grid" ....ain't that the truth!
TomS
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- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 pm
- Location: Seattle WA
Re: T48 Club Installation
We had Breathe Carolina roll through the club for a dj set last night and holy cow I underestimated those 20 inch titans lol it's pure violence. I'll probably mess with placement and potentially split them up to try to deal with a suckout in the middle of the room, but I'm not even slightly worried about output. Those 4 boxes really had every ounce of my body resonating. Wasn't just my sinus it was my entire head, throat, chest, stomach. It was absolutely visceral and hilarious coming from such a small pile of horns. My assessment that they are significantly louder than the 24 inch kappalite titans is correct. I am actually pretty jealous these boxes are awesome. If you are worried about losing out on performance by building skinnier just use the prv 15sw2000, SB audience rosso15sw800, b&c15tbw100 or lavoce waf154.00. Its a non issue (if you've got the power) with the prevalence of affordable quality amps from admark, CVR, morin, and sinbosen.
The next two weekends at vice are featuring Win and Woo, and Grammy award winning producer Imanbek, with another world championship winning dj I can't discuss yet following up soon after.
The next two weekends at vice are featuring Win and Woo, and Grammy award winning producer Imanbek, with another world championship winning dj I can't discuss yet following up soon after.
8x 24" T48 3015LF loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
Re: T48 Club Installation
Thanks for the videos! It's difficult to get a genuine feel for a systems performance through video recordings, mostly due to automatic compression, limiting, and gain settings in cameras and phone cameras. But, the performance and tuning of the mids and highs in those videos and the qualities you've expressed about them come across pretty darn well. Super smooth, no harshness, and a nice balance throughout the top end.
Not sure whether the lows are being accurately represented or not. The bottom end sounds pretty standard for a dance club. Whether it's the system tune, song choice, or the camera audio, couldn't say. Most likely the material being played. Knowing what the subs are capable of, not so much in raw output potential, but more so in their ability to recreate intricate bottom end with smooth, tactile, effortless quality while lacking the distortion... it's hard not to want DJ's to play stuff that let's those qualities shine instead of the typical club "wump wump wump" stuff. DJ's don't know what we know and they don't typically hear what we hear. Some do. Not many though.
Congrats on the quality bookings. I look forward to any and all updates on this system and venue. Great job Wyland!
Not sure whether the lows are being accurately represented or not. The bottom end sounds pretty standard for a dance club. Whether it's the system tune, song choice, or the camera audio, couldn't say. Most likely the material being played. Knowing what the subs are capable of, not so much in raw output potential, but more so in their ability to recreate intricate bottom end with smooth, tactile, effortless quality while lacking the distortion... it's hard not to want DJ's to play stuff that let's those qualities shine instead of the typical club "wump wump wump" stuff. DJ's don't know what we know and they don't typically hear what we hear. Some do. Not many though.
Congrats on the quality bookings. I look forward to any and all updates on this system and venue. Great job Wyland!
Build in process - 2 WH6, one Alpha 6a loaded, one PRV Audio 6MB250-NDY loaded
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8Β½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
Two 2x6 shorty SLA Pro's
One T39, 16", 3012LF loaded
Tall AutoTuba, 20" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
TruckTuba, 8Β½" wide, 2x 8" MCM 55-2421
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- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 pm
- Location: Seattle WA
Re: T48 Club Installation
The low end in this room is challenging. I am ultimately not super happy with the sub placement and will move them around until I find a better place for them. There is a suckout in the middle of the room that leads me to believe the short dimensions of 2 sides are contributing to this room behaving more like a small room. So splitting the subs up may be the best option. We definitely have the headroom LOL. I think I may try geddes approach and try to randomize the modes being activated. There are already 9 ported tops around the room contributing loads of 70hz, and the preset hpf on the tops is 40hz, so we are off to a good start
these tops are weird they seem to be tuned pretty low, with an undersized enclosure and excessive xmax. Then they apply FIR filters to flatten phase and magnitude down to around 500hz, as well as correct for coaxial loading geometry, and ultimately apply a very wide q 9db boost around 80hz. It's honestly brilliant and works so well! But it means that my hpf is really not too far from where the hpf is on the subs 
I know geddes believes you should leave the mains without a hpf but these are ported so they need it. This is pretty much just as good as a sealed main without a filter. It makes integration very easy as the phase shift caused by the 4th order hpf isn't until out of passband. These are remarkable loudspeakers really, they are shared magnet coaxial too, which I've never seen in person. The HF horn as well as the woofer use a 3" voice coil. Sorry for focusing so much on the loudspeakers I am just enamoured with these designs. They are so out of the box
well it seems as though they may be instrumental in achieving better bass response around the room. Crossing them over higher had negative ramifications in the subs current configuration.
8x 24" T48 3015LF loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
Re: T48 Club Installation
"There are already 9 ported tops around the room contributing loads of 70hz, and the preset hpf on the tops is 40hz..."
Anyone else's Spidey senses tingling with these crossover points? Just for shits and giggles maybe try raising the HPF on the mains. Try several settings- 80, 85, 90, and see how it effects the sound.
Anyone else's Spidey senses tingling with these crossover points? Just for shits and giggles maybe try raising the HPF on the mains. Try several settings- 80, 85, 90, and see how it effects the sound.
2 DR250s, 2 27" Lab15 T-60s, 2 30" Neo Titan 39s, 1 Autotuba...and looking for more!
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28916
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: T48 Club Installation
I agree. There may well be cancellations happening.
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- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 pm
- Location: Seattle WA
Re: T48 Club Installation
When crossing over higher it actually caused the club manager to notice the lack of kick in the room. I tried that last weekend and the ramifications for coverage were negative. I could do that if I had better coverage with the subs. But the problem is that a very great portion of the room is missing something between 50-100hz, so even if I have laser perfect alignment between the subs and tops it doesn't mean a damn thing because it gets sucked out completely in some parts of the room. I'm not talking -24db this is damn near silence at some wide frequency ranges. The overlap is completely necessary at least until I'm able to deal with the antinodes all over the room destroying the kick section. I have never encountered a room with such catastrophic bass issues. For now the tops are getting run low, both at the request of the club owner, and based on my own observations using room EQ wizard. So far, the double bass array method of having a sub on the other side of the room time aligned and out of polarity has yielded the best results. But the problem is that the sweet spot for one of the stacks is on the stage
. This is the greatest challenge of my career as the layout of the venue doesn't provide me a lot of options for dealing with room modes.
I mean I am having much more luck with home theater forums and resources to deal with this than I am pro audio. This is playing by small room rules and it is absolutely devastating to a frequency range that is very important for house music, which is the primary genre this venue focuses on. Some places are phenomenal and others are not. In order to be able to get good and UNIFORM response between 50-150hz I am going to need to try just about every trick in the book.
I mean I am having much more luck with home theater forums and resources to deal with this than I am pro audio. This is playing by small room rules and it is absolutely devastating to a frequency range that is very important for house music, which is the primary genre this venue focuses on. Some places are phenomenal and others are not. In order to be able to get good and UNIFORM response between 50-150hz I am going to need to try just about every trick in the book.
8x 24" T48 3015LF loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
- Bill Fitzmaurice
- Site Admin
- Posts: 28916
- Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 5:59 pm
Re: T48 Club Installation
Th only real cure for a bad room is more subs, not to add volume, but to smooth the response throughout the room.
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- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 pm
- Location: Seattle WA
Re: T48 Club Installation
I may be able to utilize halfway points between the longest dimensions of the room on either side and try Todd Weltis approach, but I'd only be able to use 2 walls, no corners are available. I think this is going to be my next experiment. If this doesn't work I guess I'll begin the long painstaking process of simulating and time aligning subs in 3-4 locations around the room, and then hammering down peaks in eq. And then if THAT doesn't work I will settle on the double bass array. I don't want to use the DBA because I would sacrifice the most output in favor of active cancellation. I don't think I could convince the club to build more subs
so far though DBA is the most promising with the lowest level of variance.
8x 24" T48 3015LF loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
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- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 pm
- Location: Seattle WA
Re: T48 Club Installation
Correction, I am exhausted and don't want to build any more subs for atleast a little while
I chopped about 1/3rd of an inch of my thumb off at my day job a day before we really got into the build and I wasn't very helpful in that state so my business partner Devon who is pictured in previous posts did most of the work (Shout-out to Devon you are a total G). By the time I was able to work again it was crunch time
so the last month has been pure chaos. I need a vacation after all that LOL
8x 24" T48 3015LF loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded
3x 24" T48 15SW2000 loaded
4x 20" T48 15sw2000 loaded (INSTALLED)
2x v1 OT12 F151M/2012s loaded
4X v2 OT12 F151M/WAN123.00 loaded