DR LIne Array Stands done

[bgavin]

"By the time you are old enough to know that your father was right after all, you have a son who knows you are wrong....."

The corollary is "by the time your children are fit to live with, they live with somebody else."

This one applies completely to my eldest daughter. She is a career Navy officer now, but was the Devil's first-born when she was living at home.

[Scott Brochu]

Very good work Tim, Almost done the garage, than I can start building again. Nice to get on-line and still see that your here.

[Mark Coward]

Good job on the design. While I'm sure that you're correct that the unit is stable, I just don't like the looks of the tripod legs. My thought was to buy some similar decent crank stands, remove the tripod legs and construct a flat base out of square steel tubing...similar to this:


For the dual stand setup, one base could hold both uprights. Another idea that I had which could be adapted to the tray, have the mounts that attach to the stand tubing swivel a few degrees, so that the whole array could be tilted forward a bit. Using a "J" array in a coliseum/arena setup, the seating rises in the back, so the straight line at the top works well. In venues with level flooring, with the top cab 10' or more high pointing straight out it seems to me that a lot of sound energy is wasted.

[Les Webb]

Good job on the design. While I'm sure that you're correct that the unit is stable, I just don't like the looks of the tripod legs. My thought was to buy some similar decent crank stands, remove the tripod legs and construct a flat base out of square steel tubing...similar to this:


For the dual stand setup, one base could hold both uprights. Another idea that I had which could be adapted to the tray, have the mounts that attach to the stand tubing swivel a few degrees, so that the whole array could be tilted forward a bit. Using a "J" array in a coliseum/arena setup, the seating rises in the back, so the straight line at the top works well. In venues with level flooring, with the top cab 10' or more high pointing straight out it seems to me that a lot of sound energy is wasted.

Those are much more expensive everywhere I've priced them though. Do you have a good source for them?

Les

[hclague]

Tim

And quite frankly, I never see myself using more than 4/side. That's a lot of juice and coverage, Bill rates that at 1,000 people, and we all know his estimates are conservative.

I've been so busy I haven't even plugged the DR's in yet to see if they work!

Since I will interpret that your answer to my question is no based on the second quote above, I suggest that you should actually use the boxes on a live gig. This may change your view indicated in the first quote above.

I have had 8 DR200's since May. Currently I am using 4 DR200's and 4 T24's v1 in a small club (175 person cap) that is doing Current and Classic Rock bands. I consider this minimum qty of cabs for this TYPE of music in this venue ( 105db at console ) to avoid pushing the cabs too hard. These bands are "A" and "B" level club acts. My experience validates the "more cabs for more volume" rule with BFM designs. Basically to my ears, the Piezo's do not like to be pushed too hard. Series wiring as opposed to Parallel works better for piezo sound as well IMHO.

I would not like to do an outdoor gig with a band with less than 6 DR200 cabs per side and 12 T24's. Maybe less if it was an acoustic act only.

I had to do a 600 capacity room with ~500 in attendance with only 2 DR200 cabs per side and 6 T24's center clustered. This was inadequate for "clean" 105db at the console ( 80 feet back ). 4 per side would probably have been OK.

Also would not want to do multiple cab array's without DSP.

These comments are based on the rigs competing with multiple JBL SRX 47xx and EV QRx level rigs in my area.

Again remember the DR's are not true line sources. They are more akin to the Peavey Versarray or the JBL SRX935. This is why I feel DSP is essential. This is not a negative statement. Both the Peavey and JBL rigs (actually all "psuedo line array's) require DSP to work properly.

These comments are based on a Live music environment. Recorded Music or DJ is a different beast.

Hal

Hal

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

.... My thought was to buy some similar decent crank stands, remove the tripod legs and construct a flat base out of square steel tubing...similar to this:


.

Take a look at this that a uk company is using:-





Those stands are very expensive but can hoist up a fair old weight and remain stable

Dave

[Mark Coward]

Those are much more expensive everywhere I've priced them though. Do you have a good source for them?

Les

No, I was talking about buying the inexpensive tripod crank stands and making my own bases.

[Les Webb]

No, I was talking about buying the inexpensive tripod crank stands and making my own bases.

I see that now. Sounds like a great idea. If you have any success please post the results.

Les

[Randall Dibble]

Sandbag the the speaker stands for a lower center of gravity!

Lay the bags across the the cross members in the lower legs.

In the photography world I do this for long exposures.

I sure it will help stability in wind.

[tommysb]

I work with the Doughty stands for lifting trussing and it's a pain in the arse!

[Harley]

Well folks, I must say I am impressed with Tim's line array. I was a little concerned about how sturdy this would be at first...but...no longer.


Yesterday Tim assembled the line array ( 3 x DR200 ) in front of me for a little practice and we timed the operation - about 10 mins per side. The only glitch - if you could call it that - was the cranking up of the two winch crank handles.

You can manage both at the same time with the DR200s but with DR250s and DR280s, you'd have to winch each side a little at a time. Now, that's really not a problem either because within seconds this can be done easy enough.

When the array was up I tried pushing it over, and it was damned near impossible to get it to topple. We were on relatively even ground and the only concern we could come up with is how this would act on a sloping ground - however we felt this was not a common occurence that would crop up because most stges and even outdoor events would have a flat surface in way of a stage.

Busting to get my mits on some wood and fire up some of Tim's impressive machinery and sniff the PL - we redesigned the "Outrigger Tray" The only major difference apart from some simplification is that the outrigger sides bolt onto the cab. The tray itself is now somewhat smaller and would be an easier build. We built this one from scratch ( concept to finished article ) in an hour so it would mean that one could be built knowing the new design within say 30mins.

Tim will post a photo once it is painted and wired.

The profile of the whole rig is acceptable for a stage where room is at a premium and Tim showed me how the subs ( on a wider stage or one sub/s on one side ) could be placed neatly underneath.

The most impressive thing is that the parts for this array stand are well withing reach of us DIYers in terms of cost. Tim reckons the total cost for the 2 array stands would $US650.00 for the two.

I don't see how this get get much simpler for a DIYer if you're looking for a simple but sturdy line array stand system which won't require your doctor present to amputatae the arm and leg for payment .

And no, no money has changed hands for this glowing report.

We did celebrate the modified tray build however in the usual fashion...hic!!!

Harley

[bgavin]

This was inadequate for "clean" 105db at the console ( 80 feet back ).

Good gracious, that is about 139 dB at the source! Brutal loud.

[hclague]

bgavin wrote

Good gracious, that is about 139 dB at the source! Brutal loud.

This was a Classic Rock "Concert" in a small/medium sized room.

Most "A" level bar bands operate at 100 to 110db at mix position.

Hal

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Most "A" level bar bands operate at 100 to 110db at mix position.

Hal

So do most touring acts, though the FOH is generally 100 to 125 feet out and the room at least 5,000 seats. They use a lot more power, of course, to cover the area past the FOH, and they key to the success of line arrays is that most of that power goes over the heads of the first 30 rows.

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

Sounds like you guys had a blast....!

Tim, what height are your stands when un-extended...ie how high do you have to lift the first cab onto the tray ?

An idea that I had with harley and leyland early this year on this concept that may be of use more so for your dual stand:-
One side of the stand is used to carry a bank of lights so you do away with a seperate stand for lights, cutting costs down further, it may be worth while, it may not.

Dave