Crossover Component question

[Bruce Weldy]

Local venue brought me another blown monitor. I've already replaced two drivers for 'em. Popped out the driver and it's toast. But, it's what I saw inside that has me concerned.

I've never seen an inductor/coil with it's guts hanging out. The plates are stuck there and I couldn't get them to slide back in. The crossover is passing signal/voltage.

Could that thing cause a blown speaker?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

That would only happen with extreme overpowering. Since it's cored for minimum DCR it's likely the lowpass filter, with the coil wired in series with the woofer. The overpowering would easily toast the woofer voice coil, which would be of a much lighter gauge than the inductor wire. It's a very safe bet that their monitor amp isn't limited or high passed.

[Bruce Weldy]

That would only happen with extreme overpowering. Since it's cored for minimum DCR it's likely the lowpass filter, with the coil wired in series with the woofer. The overpowering would easily toast the woofer voice coil, which would be of a much lighter gauge than the inductor wire. It's a very safe bet that their monitor amp isn't limited or high passed.

Are you saying that the damage to the coil is from overpowering?

Absolutely no question that its overpowered. QSC4050 driving monitors. I've stressed to them to keep the monitors high passed at no lower than 70hz. But, the regular guy who I've trained isn't always there.

So, is that coil damaged in a way that would cause the driver failure? Or, is it ok and it's just an overpowering issue?

I'm thinking of putting in a 3012HO with much higher xmax to try and help the situation, buy don't want to blow a new, more expensive driver because of damage to the coil.

Should that crossover be repaired or replaced? Or, does it just look bad, but is still functionable in that condition?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The coil appears cooked. It would take a lot of power to do that, more than enough to blow the woofer. It may be OK, or there could be shorting between the windings. I can't think of how the individual leaves of the core ended up like that. I also can't imagine running monitors loud enough to damage even the woofer, let alone the coil, unless it's total garbage.

[Bruce Weldy]

The coil appears cooked. It would take a lot of power to do that, more than enough to blow the woofer. It may be OK, or there could be shorting between the windings. I can't think of how the individual leaves of the core ended up like that. I also can't imagine running monitors loud enough to damage even the woofer, let alone the coil, unless it's total garbage.

The way the crossover is positioned in the box, I was wondering if it had been dropped to cause that, but I couldn't push 'em back in there at all - so I doubt dropping it could cause that.

The boxes are EV ELX112. Not bad sounding boxes. But this is the 3rd driver (woofer) we've lost in less than a year. I figured it was over-excursion and probably was on the others.....maybe on this one too......but never with the coil doing that.

I think I'll try to get 'em to replace the crossover and be done with it. Just hung up with the sound guy there and went over some preventative measures that might protect 'em. I guess we could turn down the volume on the amps. At least they are located in the basement where they shouldn't be touched. Might be worth doing that as an extra meaure of protection.

Also looking to put in a higher xmax driver.....

[Tom Smit]

I noticed that there are a bunch of tiny blobs on that same coil.

[Bruce Weldy]

I noticed that there are a bunch of tiny blobs on that same coil.

Yeah, it kinda' looks and feels like glue. Maybe it bubbled up when it melted.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The EV driver doesn't appear to be high quality, with only a 2 inch coil. For that matter it's not really EV, as EV drivers have cast frames. In any event longer xmax won't help if the coils are blowing. Turning the volume down on the amps would only result in whoever is on the board turning up the send volume. A limiter is the answer.

[Bruce Weldy]

The EV driver doesn't appear to be high quality, with only a 2 inch coil. For that matter it's not really EV, as EV drivers have cast frames. In any event longer xmax won't help if the coils are blowing. Turning the volume down on the amps would only result in whoever is on the board turning up the send volume. A limiter is the answer.

Thanks for all the knowledge and advice....

The driver is an Eminence Beta 12A (best I could tell and Eminence agreed with that)

And you're right - turning down the amps won't stop someone who really wants to push the hell out of 'em, but the idea was to help cut down on the accidents with the guy that truly cares about the gear. Not sure if you can set a limiter on the Mix/Aux ouputs on the X32.

Trying to decide whether to try and get the owner to spring for the 3012HO. Bigger voice coil and more xmax.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Could be. All the pics I've seen of it on line look like an Asian sourced driver, but companies change their sources all the time. https://www.simplyspeakers.com/electro- ... IikXpxH_TI

[Bruce Weldy]

Could be. All the pics I've seen of it on line look like an Asian sourced driver, but companies change their sources all the time. https://www.simplyspeakers.com/electro- ... IikXpxH_TI

Everything about it looks just like an Eminence. The shape of the stamped frame, the specs, etc. The one on your link isn't the same specs as the one on the EV site or the replacement on the Full Compass site. But, if that's the real specs, even the Beta12A is better from a power handling standpoint.

Oh well, it's in the venue owner's hands now. Gave him the option of the Beta 12A or the 3012HO. Getting a new crossover either way. His call....I'll put in either one.

Thanks for the help.

[Seth]

...Not sure if you can set a limiter on the Mix/Aux ouputs on the X32...

I'm pretty sure you can if you setup the aux bus output compressor as a limiter with a ratio of 100 and 0 knee and adjust threshold to suit.

[Bruce Weldy]

...Not sure if you can set a limiter on the Mix/Aux ouputs on the X32...

I'm pretty sure you can if you setup the aux bus output compressor as a limiter with a ratio of 100 and 0 knee and adjust threshold to suit.

Thanks. That's worth looking into.....well, maybe it's worth it. It would mean that I'd have to go down there with a voltmeter and a cable so could check the voltage at the stage while someone else sets the limiter. Then that would have to be updated on every aux feed on every saved scene......the other guy could do that. If the amps weren't buried in a basement, it would be easier.

I'll check out the X32 manual and offer that up to 'em. I'm thinking a 100hz test tone up to about 31 volts would be about all those boxes could handle....if sticking to the old 1/2 of wattage rating on tops.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

You don't have to reset a limiter for every scene. Knowing the voltage that you want the amp to be limited to you only need to do it once. Buried in the basement is good, that way no one can mess with it.

[Bruce Weldy]

You don't have to reset a limiter for every scene. Knowing the voltage that you want the amp to be limited to you only need to do it once. Buried in the basement is good, that way no one can mess with it.

We're talking about setting the limiter at the mixer. The amps are old school with no DSP. So, the only place to limit without adding gear is at the output of the board.

If they'd spring for it, I could pick up a couple of used drivereacks and get 4 mono signals that I could limit. I do that on my monitors.