Yet another newbie, sorry guys

[LioninSpace]

I just realized, I missed a few answers to Seth:

No, this isn't the actual dial of my unit. It is a unit with only a little depth, so a live picture of it would be difficult (cables in the way). It was a close-up from a stock photo to aid the conversation. My dial was set to about 125 Hz. I reduced it now to 80 Hz following the suggestions here.

Thanks for the PM. I do use WA, but also Signal, Threema and Telegram as I am trying not to give Facebook more information than absolutely neccessary. I don't have a profile there, but I know with me using WA, they still collect my data. I was about to sent out the first message, but reminded myself of the time difference and let you sleep through your night

@Grant: As for the signal flow: So if I EQ before cross-over, I cant distinguish between the low frequency range feed to the tops and the sub. All I can do is to balance the sound in general and use the dails of the cross-over to make the cut for the LF to optimize who gets what. That would be basically to decide what the Subs to recieve and what the mains still have to handle as the Low output of the cross-over would get fed into the amplifier for the subs. Is that correct?
And what am I to do with the High and the Mid out? I would need to combine those back together for amplification to go into the tops. Am I not adding distortions by cutting and recombining those signals?

Back to work:)

Thanks guys!

André

[LioninSpace]

Here something that popped up in the search:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/255709677346?ha ... R6yLxNzhYA

It looks like from a different area, but maybe it is doing the job just fine?

André

[Bruce Weldy]

I just realized, I missed a few answers to Seth:

No, this isn't the actual dial of my unit. It is a unit with only a little depth, so a live picture of it would be difficult (cables in the way). It was a close-up from a stock photo to aid the conversation. My dial was set to about 125 Hz. I reduced it now to 80 Hz following the suggestions here.
That's just a suggestion. Play some music and turn the dial up and down a little to find the spot where the low end punch sounds best.

@Grant: As for the signal flow: So if I EQ before cross-over, I cant distinguish between the low frequency range feed to the tops and the sub. All I can do is to balance the sound in general and use the dails of the cross-over to make the cut for the LF to optimize who gets what. That would be basically to decide what the Subs to recieve and what the mains still have to handle as the Low output of the cross-over would get fed into the amplifier for the subs. Is that correct?
And what am I to do with the High and the Mid out? I would need to combine those back together for amplification to go into the tops. Am I not adding distortions by cutting and recombining those signals?
Ok....ya' need a little explanation here. The idea is to have the system balanced (mains vs. subs) first before any EQ is used. Once the system is as close as it can be with just placement and adjusting the low pass on the EQ, then you EQ the system with the graphic EQ.

Now, if you are going to get a Crossover - that's changes things. If you use a crossover, you will go from the source to the EQ then to the crossover. You will NOT use the sub out on the EQ. From the crossover, you'll use the Low output to go to the sub amp and the High output to go to the Mains. The mids will not be used as you are running a two way system. You really don't need a 3 way crossover, but it will work fine. As with the earlier example, leave the EQ flat and dial in the crossover until it get sounding as good as you can get it. Do that by adjusting the low pass on the Low output and the high pass on the High output until is sounds balanced. With using a crossover, you can take the mains up to or above 100hz and the subs should handle everything from there down. You'll probably find that splitting that frequency up a little will help with the build up around the crossover point. For example - low pass the Low output at 90hz and high pass the high output at 100hz. See what that does, then play around with that until you start feeling like the low end is getting tighter. Once that's done, then start EQing the system to taste. Be getting the crossover as close as you can first, you'll have a lot less work with the EQ to try and get it right.

[LioninSpace]

Hi Bruce,

thanks for your answer. It does help. What Grant was referring to was how the peaces are put together. Who is connected to whom on the way from the controller to the Speakers. That's what we meant with signal flow. Not the order in which the sound is optimized. Sure, we need to get the cross-over freq set correct before we fine tune. The discussion was about the order the parts were connected to each other.

As for the Cross-over: I have had a look at the manual and found this part:

That part I was not aware of. Sounds to me, like either of the outputs can be set to anything from full-range to any frequency range than one desires. The lable at the back "Low" "Mid" or "High" are just suggestions when it comes to how to use those outputs. The advantage of digital cross-over compared to having actual coils doing the job. Nice flexiblity.

And if I get the DBX right, it comes with a 31 band equilizer, so I can sell off my ultragrah. No need for that kit anymore. Correct? That might help to soften the financial impact. And I still can EQ and optimize for the room, use the pink noise to clear any feedback from the mike, etc. That would be good news. This particular kit would not be just a cross over, it would combine the EQ inside the cross-over and give me the full treatment that I thought I bought with the ultragraph. Wow, took a while but the penny finally dropped.

Thanks for the continued support guys!

André

[Bruce Weldy]

Hi Bruce,

thanks for your answer. It does help. What Grant was referring to was how the peaces are put together. Who is connected to whom on the way from the controller to the Speakers. That's what we meant with signal flow. Not the order in which the sound is optimized. Sure, we need to get the cross-over freq set correct before we fine tune. The discussion was about the order the parts were connected to each other.

As for the Cross-over: I have had a look at the manual and found this part:

output.jpg

That part I was not aware of. Sounds to me, like either of the outputs can be set to anything from full-range to any frequency range than one desires. The lable at the back "Low" "Mid" or "High" are just suggestions when it comes to how to use those outputs. The advantage of digital cross-over compared to having actual coils doing the job. Nice flexiblity.

And if I get the DBX right, it comes with a 31 band equilizer, so I can sell off my ultragrah. No need for that kit anymore. Correct? That might help to soften the financial impact. And I still can EQ and optimize for the room, use the pink noise to clear any feedback from the mike, etc. That would be good news. This particular kit would not be just a cross over, it would combine the EQ inside the cross-over and give me the full treatment that I thought I bought with the ultragraph. Wow, took a while but the penny finally dropped.

Thanks for the continued support guys!

André

If you are going to get a driverack, look for a used PA, PA+, or PX. Much cheaper and will do everything you need. Xover, EQ, AFS (anti-feedback system), limiting, etc.

Setup would be Source (controller, mixer) to driverack to amps (mains and subs) to speakers.

[Grant Bunter]

Yes, get a driverack and sell off the Behringer!

You've seen the light, but I just want to clarify something you said above.

In the one room, you don't want subs, tops, and full range cabs running together.
I have created one preset in my driverack, for an event I do once a year, where subs and tops play in 1 room (set to low and high outs), and also feed a full range signal to full range cabs in another room (mid out).
It's not ideal, because the EQ I set to make the subs/tops sound right isn't the EQ required for the full range cabs (different response), but it's a workaround that gets the job done.
Hope that makes sense...

[LioninSpace]

Hey guys,

as the auction of the DBX Drive Rack PX 80 Prozessor is going to end in four days, I am going to focus a bit on this option to not miss out on a this chance.

As far as I can tell, it is technology from around 08 so roughly 15 years old. Not the end of the world. The original price was roughly what the PA2 that was suggested here would be. I guess if I could get it for under 100€, this would be a decent way out. Especially, since I can try to sell my as good as new ultragraph to make up for it.

Question is, if this kit is what I need. It seems to be specialized for aktiv systems, which I am not using. It also has a lot of pre-settings stored (based on specific speakers, etc) that I don't use. Does it have the needed flexibility to get me there or is there stuff out there which would do a better job? At the moment, this is the only DBX Drivepack on offer. Lots of DBX Limiters/Compressors out there, but nothing with the full functionality that I need. Is there an alternative brand/product I should keep an eye out for?

It the PX 80 close enough to what a PA2 could give me?

I also wonder about the functionality of the subharmonic synthesizer. It seems to "copy" the original signal from 48-72Hz, lower it by an octave and add it back into the mix. So it is extening the range into the LF of what was originally there. Do you guys use something like that? Does that sound OK or a bit faked? Is that the part that does sound much better now but will be a miss on this old mashine as it was new tech back then?

I know, there is still lots to do when it comes to adjustments and sub placement to optimize what I got. But everyones first reaction was: The Ultragraph isn't it, you wouldn't be in this position with a Drive Rack. Makes sense to me to find out if this is a way forward with a big impact that also comes with a time limit on it (< 4 days). Time is in short supply for me right now.

What do you think? (I know, quite bold as I have gotten plenty of good tips already. Thanks guys!)

André

[LioninSpace]

Oh and also to clarify. I use the term "tops" for the mains but I don't own speakers that are specified to be just tops... the speakers are own are all full-range (with a different degree of abilities). So I would need something that helps me to sort out my fullrange fronts with the subs in a decent fashion but would hopefully also allow me to move to something else in the distant future.
Even if I am looking to optimize on what I have, I might still end up building a set of horns from this site eventually...

André

[Bruce Weldy]

Question is, if this kit is what I need. It seems to be specialized for aktiv systems, which I am not using. It also has a lot of pre-settings stored (based on specific speakers, etc) that I don't use. Does it have the needed flexibility to get me there or is there stuff out there which would do a better job? At the moment, this is the only DBX Drivepack on offer. Lots of DBX Limiters/Compressors out there, but nothing with the full functionality that I need. Is there an alternative brand/product I should keep an eye out for?



André

Think about it for a minute......what is an active speaker? It's just and amp and a speaker box where the cable between them is really short since the amp lives inside. Take the amp outside of the box and put it 20 feet away......what's the difference? None.

The PX is merely a device designed for a two-way crossover instead of three-way. They priced it a little cheaper and marketed it to people buying powered (active) speakers. All of the functions are exactly the same. The only thing a PA2 will do for you that the PX won't is the addition of iPad control. You have no need for that - everything is available on the front screen and once you set it - you are done.

As far as all of the models in the PX (those are in the others too), you won't be using them. You will use a Custom setting, picking your own crossover points and gain for the tops and subs.

I own and use the PA, PA+, and the PX - all in one rack. While the actual interface varies a little from model to model - what they do is exactly the same. I've set up a few systems in my time with used PX units because they were the cheapest to find.

As far as that subsynth stuff.....you can play around with it - but it's no substitute for just setting the system correctly with the EQ that you have available. Most likely the subs you have don't go that low anyway.

[Seth]

...I guess if I could get it for under 100€, this would be a decent way out. Especially, since I can try to sell my as good as new ultragraph to make up for it...

YES! Do it! Absolutely perfect for what you're doing. Depending how much you're able to get it for and how much you get for your current gear, you could end up Euros ahead!

Even comes with the measurement mic

[Seth]

...It's not ideal, because the EQ I set to make the subs/tops sound right isn't the EQ required for the full range cabs (different response), but it's a workaround that gets the job done...

Do you utilize any of the available post crossover PEQ that's discreet to each output pair? If not, could help.

[LioninSpace]

Oh well, its already past 140€ with almost three more days to go... fingers crossed.
André

[Seth]

When attempting to buy auction items on ebay, I use an app on my phone called "PerfectSniper". I'm sure there are other similar apps that exist. In the app, I enter the listing info and the most I'm willing to pay for the unit, not what I hope to get it for... My highest, wouldn't spend a dime more, amount. The app automatically enters my bid about a second or two before the bidding ends. Most bidders don't actually enter the highest they're willing to pay and this keeps other people from having time to sell themselves on outbidding me. And I don't contribute to early bidding wars that get the price up early on. I almost always end up paying much less than my top dollar and rarely get out-bid. But, I usually enter a fair market value as my offer, unless I'm just trying for a ridiculous deal on something I don't really need (which I almost never do).

Maybe give it a try.

[Seth]

Oh well, its already past 140€ with almost three more days to go... fingers crossed.
André

Sold for €186.00.
Did you win?

[CarterKraft]

When attempting to buy auction items on ebay, I use an app on my phone called "PerfectSniper". I'm sure there are other similar apps that exist. In the app, I enter the listing info and the most I'm willing to pay for the unit, not what I hope to get it for... My highest, wouldn't spend a dime more, amount. The app automatically enters my bid about a second or two before the bidding ends. Most bidders don't actually enter the highest they're willing to pay and this keeps other people from having time to sell themselves on outbidding me. And I don't contribute to early bidding wars that get the price up early on. I almost always end up paying much less than my top dollar and rarely get out-bid. But, I usually enter a fair market value as my offer, unless I'm just trying for a ridiculous deal on something I don't really need (which I almost never do).

Maybe give it a try.

I do the same "auction sniper".
Works very well and allows the auction system to work correctly over the internet IMO.
The time I got the 12" disc sander for less than $5 the seller was not amused. Cost me $50 in shipping though so it wasn't a loss.
The thing is I had a pretty high bid on it around $50 + shipping but I guess no one else bid.
Another benefit to the snipers is they don't arbitrarily run up the price via proxy bidding, they only enter a single bid within seconds of the close and who ever bids the highest wins.