phase vs time alignment

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The mic being mobile is interesting...and points to just how out of whack the whole system was.

I agree, the fact that they maxed the BBE indicates that they simply don't know how to use their gear, and one thing you don't do at high levels is wander the floor with a mic.

[Dave Non-Zero]

I had 5 screamo bands last night, and hit 121.8dB at mix position.
all of the bands 'singers' were down on the floor with the crowd gettig messy and moving about the room and were easily within a few feet of the tops with not a hint of a problem. I thought about trying to video it for this thread, but noway I could have got over there. Haha.

If you are trying to get too much out of a system (and it sounds like those djs were trying to squeeze ever last bit) then all the gains will be maxing out, the wireless will probably be clipping it's output, the channnel on desk clipping, the BBE and amps too. All that adds up as a compression effect on the vocals, which means the vocal isn't any louder when he MCs, but the gain is far too high for the system, hence feedback.

Even if the desk and other bits aren't actually redlining, I bet the wireless mic is. Probably sending a very compressed signal. Did you try a wired mic?

[subharmonic]

The mic being mobile is interesting...and points to just how out of whack the whole system was.

I agree, the fact that they maxed the BBE indicates that they simply don't know how to use their gear, and one thing you don't do at high levels is wander the floor with a mic.

Yeah. I am trying to help them but I keep on being told what the system should do not being asked what can we do with our system. eg for some reason I can't convince them that passive speakers are the way to go.

If you are trying to get too much out of a system (and it sounds like those djs were trying to squeeze ever last bit) then all the gains will be maxing out, the wireless will probably be clipping it's output, the channnel on desk clipping, the BBE and amps too. All that adds up as a compression effect on the vocals, which means the vocal isn't any louder when he MCs, but the gain is far too high for the system, hence feedback.

Umm I was at the board and thought I set the gain structure right (not that this would affect the mic gain). No red lines on the board or BBE but I guess their sub was. Since it was self powered and in a corner we didn't see the clip light until their brand new JBL sub started smelling like burned electronics the last hour, when I looked it was clipping like a mofo! They normally run their gear in clip mode a lot. LOL

Even if the desk and other bits aren't actually redlining, I bet the wireless mic is. Probably sending a very compressed signal. Did you try a wired mic?

Do you think they would invest in a wired mic even a cheap one? That is so 1970s. What the heck do you need backups for? I mean did we need a backup plan or gear when the new ADJ board went down during the Mother/Son dance? Then the following 2 songs?

I did have a few beers after that crap started.

[Dave Non-Zero]

I blame the mic, and trying to make an inadequate rig give the levels they want, not what is actually achievable. If the room is ringy, and the mic is bad (cheap and/or overdriven), and the MC is cupping it like a 'cool' person, and things are clipping, then turn down or walk away. Don't apologise, just say it can't be done. Then get the beers in and put your earplugs in.

[subharmonic]

the MC is cupping it like a 'cool' person

LOLS. He kept doing that as "it is preventing the feedback" in his words, not really but it made his voice more boomy and completely unintelligible. During sound check I changed his name to P. Diddy!

[Dave Non-Zero]

I rest my case. What cupping does, apart from making your voice sound rubbish, is change the pickup pattern on the mic from cardioid (or super/hypercardioid) to more of an omni pickup, therefore increasing feedback problems. the rear rejection properties disappear, causing problems with even carefully setup monitors.

When ringing out monitors on stage, it is a way of testing if the system is close to feedback or to encourage a mode to make itself heard so you can cut it on the eq.
Mantra is-
• one, two. One, two. Tih... Tih... Tih.... toooooh, one, Toooh. [cup mic]
• Fiddle with eq
• Repeat top step.

If you get no feeback issues once you have done that, then the show should be fine. Until they take the mic off the stand and kneel down and lean over the monitors and dangle the mic and point it in the monitors etc etc.
I just let the happen, because there has to be some sort of learning process for them.

[subharmonic]

Don't apologise, just say it can't be done.

So is a "roving" mic always out of the question? Are if the room is EQ'd and a good mic used this is a possibility?

[jjohnson]

Don't apologise, just say it can't be done.

So is a "roving" mic always out of the question? Are if the room is EQ'd and a good mic used this is a possibility?

I believe he is referring to this case where you have one or more of the following: bad/cheap mic, bad mic technique, EQ not properly set, too much processing (BBE), too small system, and I would add lack of processing on the mic (lack of compressor).

As noted by another - a properly setup system can be had given that you have and take the time/equipment to set it up correctly. I've used systems with 10+ open mics and had them mobile and in front of the speakers and not had to worry about feedback.

[Dave Non-Zero]

Don't apologise, just say it can't be done.

So is a "roving" mic always out of the question? Are if the room is EQ'd and a good mic used this is a possibility?

I had 5 screamo bands last night, and hit 121.8dB at mix position.
all of the bands 'singers' were down on the floor with the crowd gettig messy and moving about the room and were easily within a few feet of the tops with not a hint of a problem. I thought about trying to video it for this thread, but noway I could have got over there. Haha.

it's like a lots of things. One wrong ingredient can spoil the recipe.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

the MC is cupping it like a 'cool' person

LOLS. He kept doing that as "it is preventing the feedback" in his words, not really but it made his voice more boomy and completely unintelligible. During sound check I changed his name to P. Diddy!

P.Doofus would be more like it.