Trace Elliot 130watt needs more power. Anybody know how to?

[Billthebassplayer]

Hi all

I have an old trace elliot combo gp7sm 130watts its the blx model 1X10 rear loaded with a vertical slot port down the front panel
Anyway i was wondering if its an easy job to upgrade the ouput power to lets say 300watts
I dont have a lot of amp twiddling experience so im clutching at straws really

Guys this is just a "project" so any suggestions of selling it and buying this or that will be ignored
Genuine answers only please

Cheers

Bill

[sine143]

How much do you think you could sell it for? upgrading the existing amp will be just about as easy as starting from scratch. You could maybe salvage the amp head, and then build it into a seperate box to throw on top of a J110, which will blow the doors off your 1x10 combo amp.

Its not all about wattage. Its also about sensitivity. The Jacks were designed to replace 4x10s, and they do a good job of that. I think you'll see a vast improvement over you're 1x10 if you upgrade to the jack (at least 3 db, which is all you would see by going from 130 watts to 300 watts anyways).

[Chris_Allen]

It would be a massive overhaul to upgrade to 300Watts, something so complicated that it would be easier starting from scratch. I have read about people replacing the output stages of amps before but unless that kind of thing is second nature to you the risk of it leading to disaster out ways any potential financial saving. These days, integrated circuits are fantastic value for money and without an accurate circuit diagram modifications other than same spec/better quality upgrades is going to require a lot of head scratching or a natural electronics genius.

I remember that amp well, a good little unit. If you need more output from your 130Watts, it is probably easier to add an extension cab and drop it to 4 Ohms.

If you do manage to find a simple way, or even a successful complicated way, I would love to read and see a write up. Good luck.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Anyway i was wondering if its an easy job to upgrade the ouput power to lets say 300watts

No. It's not even a difficult job, it's an almost impossible job. And going from 130 to 300 watts would accomplish very little, as no 1x10 can make use of 300 watts anyway.

[Mikey]

I have an old trace elliot combo gp7sm 130watts its the blx model 1X10 rear loaded with a vertical slot port down the front panel ... Anyway i was wondering if its an easy job to upgrade the ouput power to lets say 300watts ... I dont have a lot of amp twiddling experience so im clutching at straws really ... Guys this is just a "project" so any suggestions of selling it and buying this or that will be ignored

What are you trying to accomplish? Even IF you could modify that amp to 300w, it would do little (if anything) to increase what's coming out of that one 10. If your goal is to get more SPLs, but you really love that amp and don't want to go with a different one, then your BEST option is to make the amp into a head and use better, more efficient speakers.

I Googled your amp and came-up with 130, 150, 200, and 300 watt models. Do you know the power specifics of your particular model? It COULD be that it puts 130w into 8 ohms, but considerably more into 4 ohms ... conversely, it could put 130w into 4 ohms, but less into 8 ohms. Do you know, or can you find out this info?

IF the amp is 4 0hm capable, and you want to get a LOT more out of it, you could go with a rig as large as a T39/DR250 combination. You'd use a BP102-4 in the T39 and use the passive crossover which is in the T39 plans. A 2xBP102-8 Omni12 would be another option. One or two DR250s would be options. One or two J10s or J12s would be other options. ANY of these would allow you to get more SPLs, using that same amp.

ANOTHER option would be to use your amp head to run one or two cabs, and use the DI output to run a power amp into more speakers.

Yet ANOTHER option would be to use your preamp out / power amp in, and insert an active crossover which would allow you to use your amp to power a mid/hi cab and a separate power amp to power a sub.

ANY of these options would be better than diving into that amp with little to no experience to attempt to increase it's output.

[Gauss]

You're in the same boat as I am - I love my combo amp (it's an older GenzBenz 250c 1x12). My combo amp is a small version of a bigger one (250 watts v. 500 watts at 4ohm) and there are places on the circuit board that are half-empty. I've thought about trying to modify it, but in reality, there's no way I could get my hands on the right parts or know for sure how to do it.

I imagine that part of the sound you like is the cabinet itself. You can get the most out of what you have now by always corner- or wall-loading it and pointing it up at your ears. What I did is build a tiltback stand with wheels. I got the idea while watching the Grand Ole Opry with grandma and seeing the front line of musicians' amps facing back towards them, on black stands to keep them discreet on stage. Anyhow, this points the amp up at my ears, and I have a one-trip load in, because of the wheels. When I need a lot of volume (like practice with my rock band) I roll it into the corner or against the wall and the low-end gets acoustically coupled for additional bass.

I also had a desire to make it sound even bigger for outdoor shows (normally I'd have a PA, but one band is old-school.) I ended up building a Titan 39 sub for bi-amping. The signal goes from the combo head to the sub, where the passive crossover sends the highs back to the combo speaker. The combo speaker is no longer putting out the lows, and so it doesn't run out of steam as quick. The titan with the passive crossover (less precise than a digital or active crossover) sounds good with bass guitar, and gets lots of low end that wasn't there before. I play a 5-string G&L bass. It shakes the rafters in the church gym. (The picture is taken before I added the final braces for the mouth or covered it in duratex.)

Another thought that might work, though I have to admit I don't have a lot of experience with one, is a compression pedal. From what I understand, you can raise your effective volume level by compressing the signal. Maybe one of the forum's experienced pro's can help with that.

Here's all my old photos to help you understand what I'm talking about.

[Billthebassplayer]

Hi guys

Thanks for your replies sorry for the late reply not logged in for a while
Erm where do i start lol
I tried the amp on one of my 8ohm beta10 6flat array jacks in my living room and was shocked how quiet it was output volume full whack and preamp volume just clipping with my active 5 string (in the active input)
Sounded awful didnt even shake a picture off or invoke a neighbour to bang on the wall????
I guess what i need here is headroom
Maybe the amp is faulty?

The plan i dreamed up was upgrading it to 300watt and using with my two jacks for rehearsals/small gigs for a "light load" situation
If juicing it up to 300watts is not viable ill just leave it alone
I know a guy who works on amps for a living who could do it but hes not a musician
Im reasonably geeky about amps, speakers and all that but when he speaks a funny moonman language comes out

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I know a guy who works on amps for a living who could do it

Not without a huge cost. Not only would the output devices have to be swapped out but so would the entire power supply, including the power transformer. Logical options are to replace the amp, use it with at least a pair of J10s for adequate sensitivity (but then you're lugging around a combo when all you need is a head), or add a T39 below as per Gauss.

[Gregory East]

or take the head out of the combo and use it for two Jacks.

I wonder if there were some nasty phase issues with the slot firing Trace speaker and the jack?

[Billthebassplayer]

I wonder if there were some nasty phase issues with the slot firing Trace speaker and the jack?

I took the head out the combo and run it completely independent of the trace cabinet

I will take it to amp specialist and see if it is faulty 130watts should have a lot more to give

[Mikey]

I will take it to amp specialist and see if it is faulty 130watts should have a lot more to give

Did you read my previous post in this thread? Your amp is 130w into ? ohms? If it's 130w into 4 ohms and you're using a single 8 ohm cab, the amp is probably only pushing 65-90w. That's not much power, and there's definately no headroom.

You seem to really love that amp. If so, it's probably the preamp that's the main attraction. I'd suggest getting a power amp and running it from your preamp out. IMO, even if it is delivering 130w into a load, it's just not enough power.

[Billthebassplayer]

Yeah sorry its 130 into 4ohm

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Yeah sorry its 130 into 4ohm

That's not much. Maybe 90 into eight.

[Mikey]

Have you tried the Trace head through your pair of J10s (without the built-in Trace speaker)? If not, give it a shot and tell us if that gives you what you're looking for. The 4ohm load plus the Jacks' sensitivity will give you about all that you can hope-for out of that amp, in terms of volume output. If this combination gives you acceptable volume but not enough bottom-end, another option would be a J15 loaded with an Eminence C2515 driver (4ohms, 300w).

Have you started building your T39 and OT12 for your big rig yet?