Mics for acapella barbershop?

[SoundInMotionDJ]

I have been asked to bid the PA system for a barbershop convention weekend. Unfortunately, none of the organizers has done this before, and they were no help with what kinds of mics and mic arrangements they would need.

I have some SM58's...which are OK for a single singer per mic. BUT barbershop needs to blend in order to really get the overtones & harmony.

Any suggestions on a good (or better than good) mic for acapella vocal ensembles? How many mics would be needed (these will be barbershop quartets...with the occasional quintet and sextet)? What kind of budget am I looking at?

Thanks,
--Stan Graves

[gdougherty]

I have been asked to bid the PA system for a barbershop convention weekend. Unfortunately, none of the organizers has done this before, and they were no help with what kinds of mics and mic arrangements they would need.

I have some SM58's...which are OK for a single singer per mic. BUT barbershop needs to blend in order to really get the overtones & harmony.

Any suggestions on a good (or better than good) mic for acapella vocal ensembles? How many mics would be needed (these will be barbershop quartets...with the occasional quintet and sextet)? What kind of budget am I looking at?

Thanks,
--Stan Graves

You'll get blending, overtones, and harmony with a mixer and individual mics for each singer. If you have enough mics for the largest group you'll see, then you're golden. You could spend a bunch on better vocal mics like vocal condensers, but you'll be spending alot on those. Condensers also are more prone to feedback when you put a bunch on stage so I prefer to limit them to a single mic, maybe two. If you want, pick up a sextet of Beta58's or the Sennheiser 935's or The Heil handhelds or any number of better quality mics in the <$200/ea range.

[pwfirst]

I used sure 58's for years untill Bill suggested the Audix M5, my new favorite mic. You would need one per performer. Barber shop might do well using a condensor mic. I like my Rode NT1-A I use it mainly in the sudio but it has worked well on stage for bluegrass. It is around $225 new. $150-$180 on Ebay. For the money it is excellent. Phil

[mike james]

This may not be your answer to this question. But if you are happy with the SM 58"s and need more mic's I have a frugal replacement. We A/B tested the shure against the Behringer XM8500 Microphone and could not tell a difference. The XM8500 sells for $20 online.

[gdougherty]

This may not be your answer to this question. But if you are happy with the SM 58"s and need more mic's I have a frugal replacement. We A/B tested the shure against the Behringer XM8500 Microphone and could not tell a difference. The XM8500 sells for $20 online.

Yeah, but how long will it hold up? Sennehiser e835 actually does better, especially with retaining fullness as you back off the mic, can be had 3 for $200 and comes with a 10 year no questions warranty. The squared off fronts also hold up much better to drops than the traditional spherical screens.

[mike james]

Yeah, but how long will it hold up? Sennehiser e835 actually does better, especially with retaining fullness as you back off the mic, can be had 3 for $200 and comes with a 10 year no questions warranty. The squared off fronts also hold up much better to drops than the traditional spherical screens.

We have used them for 2 years with no troubles. But I can buy 5 XM8500 mic's to 1 SM 85. A big online music store has them 3 for $59.99. They work great for running sound for the kiddy bands because if one gets dropped, it's a cheap mic. But the ones we have sound every bit as good as the Shure. YMMV

[Ron K]

I have been asked to bid the PA system for a barbershop convention weekend. Unfortunately, none of the organizers has done this before, and they were no help with what kinds of mics and mic arrangements they would need.

I have some SM58's...which are OK for a single singer per mic. BUT barbershop needs to blend in order to really get the overtones & harmony.

Any suggestions on a good (or better than good) mic for acapella vocal ensembles? How many mics would be needed (these will be barbershop quartets...with the occasional quintet and sextet)? What kind of budget am I looking at?

Thanks,
--Stan Graves

I'd use a Good pair of Stereo Cardioid Condensers and have them face each other on a 60 degree axis with the heads less then 2 inches apart.Sort of like cross firing tops but at a shallower angle.Keep them at least 6-8ft from the performers and use a gate on them to keep background noise down between acts.Key here is good "sound" "reinforcement" techniques and not trying to get rock levels. Just reinforce the Ensemble into the room as accurately as possible.

A pair of Shure KSM141s or RODE NT1-A-MPs should work but they are not cheap.A better choice would be the Shure KSM141s which can be switched to omnis if desired. Again not cheap!

There are some cheaper alternatives out there but I wouldn't hold my breath on the performance of them. I certainly wouldn't hang my reputation on one either.

Properly placed a Stereo Pair should do what you really want for any type Ensemble! Both the Shure and Rode are prime contenders not "pretenders". Individually micing the groups will loose some of the ambiance that comes from such Ensembles! Especially if your in an acoustically favorable environment like a concert hall made for orchestras!

[BrentEvans]

+1` on the XM8500s. I use them, and they're pretty solid. Metal's kind of hard to bang up badly, and for the price, great vocal mics. They do have a bit of a high mid presence that makes them not so great on instruments and amps, but there's other mics for that.

Back to the original question, it depends on the group. Some groups may want handhelds, some may want to gather around a common mic so they can mix themselves. Have enough handhelds for the largest group you'll see, but also provide a large diaphragm condenser setup. The stereo pairs described above work great for recording large ensembles, but barbershop quartets will often be too close for that technique to be effective (you'll have hot and cold spots, etc), especially if this is for reinforcement applications as well. You can play around with gating, but it's VERY difficult to get a gate set on this type of setup so that it's transparent. I much prefer to ride the fader for noise control on this. To do it, you really need an expander, not a gate, and the gated signal should NEVER be sent to a recording.

I personally have (and use for this type of thing) the Marshall V63M which is a nice sounding mic, but as with any wide pattern condenser is a bit subject to feedback. I have no problems with 3-4 people gathering around a single mic and being heard, and I have used a stereo pair on a stereo adapter, but I find that in this application, splaying works better than crossfiring (or in mic-world, XY configuration).

The other (probably better) option is a single omni. You may want to look at the Behringer C3 or something similar. I've used the C3 too, it's quite good. This mic is switchable between cardioid, omni, and figure 8, a pair of them could be set up in several ways:

1. Two cardioids, splayed or X/Y configuration.
2. Two omnis, spaced a bit for wide pickup
3. Mid-side configuration (better for recording) where one is set for Fig-8, one is cardioid, and the F-8 has its lobes to the left and right, and nulls front and back, is fed to two channels, panned hard L and R, with one channel phase reversed. The cardioid then fires straight ahead and is fed L and R. This creates a subtle stereo image with good mono compatibility. I haven't read of a lot of people using this for reinforcement, but it would give you stereo seperation (you could potentially play with phase to help control feedback) and a pretty wide pattern (see the link for details).

Anyway, hope all that helps. Oh, and if you do go with condensers (which you should for this) get windscreens that completely cover the mic's pickup area, front and back, and buy shock mounts if they don't come with. I started out with just regular foamies, but still got plosives where just a millimeter or two of the grill was still visible below the windscreen. They do make larger versions, I have some that completely cover the grill and go down over the body of the mic, and they work great.

[Tom Smit]

My limited exposure to babershoppers is that some might use hand-held mics, and some like to stand in a group (and maybe use actions)...to echo BrentEvans.

[soundmankeith]

+1 on the durability of the XM8500. I bought 2 3 packs when I ran the house sound at the local screamo bar. These things endured obscene spl's, spit, blood, bouncing off the ceiling and floor. These were the only pieces of equipment that didn't break in the year that I worked that room. I only lost 1 mic, and that was because it grew legs. Them were the days, 20 X 60 room, all hard surface, low ceilings, and 3 full stacks on stage every weekend. At least I didn't need monitors Actually, that was the gig that got me started with BFD's, the wedgehorn 10, there were times when I'd go up to the stage and someone would have a jacket stuffed in it 'cause it was too loud. I can't imagine, with only vocals through the pa, I would get readings on my meter at 117-120 almost all night at the booth. Sorry, got a little ot

[bgavin]

I'm going to give the XM8500 a try.
GC was out of stock, so I got them from B&H instead. Shipped price was the same at $61.

My cancer benefit show is coming up, and there is a lot of different talent on stage during the day.
This time, it's adult talent instead of screaming/thrashing kiddies.
As noted above, if you lose a $17 mic, it isn't nearly as painful as seeing your expensive Sennheisers dropped and thrashed.

[Ron K]

Here's a Mic guideline from a performing Quartet.

I would think they have some sort of clue.

http://minnichnet.org/rcq/presskit/RCQ% ... elines.pdf

[BrentEvans]

Here's a Mic guideline from a performing Quartet.

I would think they have some sort of clue.

http://minnichnet.org/rcq/presskit/RCQ% ... elines.pdf

Lots of excellent, but very expensive mics on that lit (even their B list... ) I stand by my prior recommendations if budget is a concern

I'm going to give the XM8500 a try.

You won't be sorry.

[Ron K]

I'm certainly not begrudging the xm8500 its due. In fact for rock vocals I believe it to be a straight up contender to the venerable 58 or beta 58. I am no big Behringer supporter by any means. However I am a firm believer in the "proof is in the pudding" and some B-ringer products (rip-off clones or not) are real contenders.

The xm8500 is one of those "real" contenders.I've actually done blind side by sides with some pretty good vocalists (58s B58,EV767,EV967s,OM5)and they all agreed ....it's a very good sounding option.A few could tell the difference between the 8500 and 58 but most agreed it sounded much more akin to the B58.

If you're on a tight budget this is a very good mic and they are in fact quite tough.

Now for ambient micing an ensemble I wouldn't dare. If you cant afford the proper ambient solutions then Dynamic up close is pretty much all you are left with unless you wish to try your luck with a cheap omni-condenser.

Were strict budget constraints a factor (OP didn't specify) then by all means choose the most financially appropriate for you.

The OP did specify he already had some 58s and I dont think there's much to be gained on the up close dynamic side of things from buying something else if you already have 58s.

I could be wrong here but I'm thinkin the OP was looking for the ambient solution and it's associated costs!

[bgavin]

You won't be sorry.

I'm willing to use $20 mics for cattle herd shows.
I just cringe when I think of some clod knocking over one of my OM6.

Behringer's first and foremost reputation is for theft of intellectual property.
Reliability concerns come after that. Some boxes work better than others.. I'll take a chance here.

I might take a chance on repairing one of their DSP if I can steal a dead one for cheap.
It would be worth an evening or two doing board repairs, if I could get a reliable, and working unit.