Hello - Long time reader, first time question asker

[drihanek]

Hi my name is Darin. I run sound at church, play bass, and like to try to build everything, often times unsuccessfully. Mostly because I don't know much about (anything) electronics. Just as an example I tried to build my own in-ear wired monitor of a headphone schematic without even knowing what the symbols meant, so I'm up for building some speakers. Enough about me, on to the questions. I'll ask a few to start and go from there.

My band currently uses four EAW LA 325's for tops and four EAW SB250's for the subs. Has anyone heard these and then compared them to a BFM design? I would be curious to know the comparisons in both sound quality and what combination would be considered an equivalent system to what we already have. I ask because I am considering buying a top and sub plans and building one stack and comparing them myself but not sure what would be comparable. My personal thoughts would be a DR280 and Tuba 36 or Titan 48. The speakers would be used both indoors and outdoors (for example we just played for about 1000 people in a 276 X 85 foot tent).

Like I said I don't much about matching speakers and amps, but we are kinda looking to maybe cutting down our amp rack weight and speaker weight and size for travel and setup (we can't afford roadies and have to do it ourselves and why wear yourself out before the performance if you don't have too?). Finally, something to consider is that I already have 4 Delta Pro 15's and a Delta Pro 12 and a Delta Pro 8, so if I could use those it would make things a little cheaper. Thanks for reading my ramblings and for any help.

D

[Harley]

I'd be inclined to go T39 subs and DR200 tops.

Start off with 2 DR200s per side and 2 T39 BP102 20" wide subs and see how you go. Just add more if required.

If you have some King Kong types in your roadies, then perhaps T48s.

Others will have different opinions for sure.

[DJPhatman]

I'd be inclined to go T39 subs and DR200 tops.

Start off with 2 DR200s per side and 2 T39 BP102 20" wide subs and see how you go. Just add more if required.

If you have some King Kong types in your roadies, then perhaps T48s.

Others will have different opinions for sure.

I concur, except use the 3012LF instead of the BP102. Absolutely V-plate and corner load the T39s. If you need more noise, build more cabinets. Hard limit the cabs to half power, as they make not much more noise after this point.

Oh yeah! Welcome to the forum, and have fun!

[Harley]

I concur, except use the 3012LF instead of the BP102.

Good point!

[drihanek]

So you guys are saying skip the use of the Delta Pro 15's? The reason I like the Titan 48's is because we love the bass in our concerts and according to Bill's projection of the weight they would still be almost 30 pounds lighter than the SB250's as long as they have a very similar tone and output. I threw the Tuba 36 in there because the space saving in the trailer would be huge. I guess the Titan 39's would save some space, but can you use a 15" driver there? Just asking, like I said I know nothing about what would be comparable. Also, why not the DR280's. Is it just because the build is too complicated? I also have questions about melded peizo drivers but I'll save that for now.

Thanks,
D

[Ron K]

I believe any of the tops in singles (DRs and O-tops) will beat both EAWs combined output.That alone will make your frontal area and smaller and your load in much easier.

As for subs either the T-39 or T-48 will run with the EAW boxes but will weigh nowhere near 112 lbs per box! A pair T-39s "V" plated will couple and beat out the 250s.

The final straw is you wont need near the number of amps to run the BFM rig to full tilt as you would the power hungry EAWs.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

My band currently uses four EAW LA 325's for tops and four EAW SB250's for the subs. Has anyone heard these and then compared them to a BFM design?

The closest you'd find to the LA 325 would be the Omni 15 TB. Your system is intrinsically flawed, because the LA 325 is a full ranger designed to operate without subs. Using them as tops they're twice the size and four times the weight required for what they'll deliver. The physical size of subs should be two to four times that of the tops. Your rig is skewed the wrong way. And since the LA 325 can't be line arrayed comb-filtering and poor midrange dispersion is a given. As for the SB250, a 3012LF loaded T39 will chew them up and spit them out.

Finally, something to consider is that I already have 4 Delta Pro 15's and a Delta Pro 12 and a Delta Pro 8
D

Delta Pro 15s lack the excursion necessary for a sub. They will work in OTop 15.

[DJPhatman]

Finally, something to consider is that I already have 4 Delta Pro 15's and a Delta Pro 12 and a Delta Pro 8, so if I could use those it would make things a little cheaper.

Sell the Delta Pro 15s and the Delta Pro 12. Use the money to buy 3 more Delta Pro 8s, and build 4 DR200s. If you are dead-set on T48s, then by all means, build them and use them with KappaLite 3015LFs. If you have the trailer space, build 4 T48s, 30" wide (internal) single load them, and use the small chamber option.

Small bar gig? Use 2 DR200 and one t48. Big bar gig? Use 4 DR200 and 2 T48, V-plated and corner loaded. Outdoor gig? Use everything, the the T48s stacked and V-plated.

oh, and don't forget to build some WedgeHorns, too!

[drihanek]

Ha - want to hear something funny. Last night I wasn't even pushing my LA325's and blew the tweeter.

So Bill are you recommending OT15's for the high's or is that only if I want to use the Delta 15 Pro's? And then a Titan 39 with the 12" driver. So that would be 4-OT15's and 4 Titan 39's to replace the EAW's or do I really just need two of each. I have to admit that it is hard to imagine a single 12" driver competing with two 15's that cost a lot of money when that is all I have ever seen and been taught -- but I so want it to be true when I put these things together. By the way Bill I agree the EAW system does seem backwards - I am running the LA325 in bi-amped mode with the subs but it I always have the crossover favoring the subs heavily and in a smaller room it can become boomy and in a large area or outside just disappear in spots. Let me guess, it because I split them and they are not 56 feet apart?

DJPHAT I'm not really stuck on the Titan 48's. Actually I would like to build the smallest possible set of speakers (I guess that is why I brought up the Tuba 36) that would cover about 300 people indoors or out, and then be able to add a second set that would put me in the 500 to 700 range. Of course I want the world too because I would like to cut my amps down from 3 to 2 or 1 if possible that's why I am asking a ton of questions before I purchase designs. So with the number of people I want to hit I used the product recommendations to start with the DR280 and Titan 48's. So I am looking for suggestions that would accomplish the task, so whatever you think I would like to hear.

Thanks,
D

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I'd do four OTop 12s and four T39s, 3012LF loaded. Smaller gigs you'd only need half the rig. An OTop loaded with 3012HO and NDS2005 will easily outperform the LA325 above 100 Hz. If you go with OTop 15 you must use two HF drivers per cab, so what you save on not buying woofers will be spent on the extra HF drivers. A 3012HO loaded OTop 12 will have as much output capability as a Delta Pro loaded OTop 15.

[Preston]

[I have to admit that it is hard to imagine a single 12" driver competing with two 15's that cost a lot of money when that is all I have ever seen and been taught --

I just replaced a pair of big, heavy JBL 2x15's with a couple of those little light weight single 12 inch drivers T-39's. There was no contest. I couldn't sell the 15's fast enough. I know it's a leap of faith, but you'll be thankful you took it.

[drihanek]

Bill,

Thanks, I love this. I keep reading the forum and different things and am learning a lot. I feel like I'm pretty settled on the Titan 39's. I know there is a difference but there doesn't seem to be much difference between that and the T48 for what I am doing. However, I still have two questions: 1. Are the melded peizo's better than the compression drivers? I mean is there a reason I want the compression drivers, because the melded arrays look cool but function is better than cool so I was just wondering. 2. Could the DR250's be a good option for the T39's and what I am wanting to replace? I admit I am in love with the DR250/280 look. Actually I love the 300's but I know that is overkill at this point. (But that doesn't mean I can't make some later.

Preston,

Do you ever get near Quincy, IL. I live in NEMO about 40 min. the other side of Quincy. If your ever over this way with your stuff I'd love to hear it. I am becoming a believer, I just wonder why pro speaker companies don't use these types of designs. Is it some conspiracy with the amp companies to sell more gear?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I just wonder why pro speaker companies don't use these types of designs.

It's called 'maintaining profit margin'. The vast majority of commercial cabs are assembled by minimum wage unskilled laborers in less than two hours total. High quality commercial cabs do exist, but at prices you can't afford.

[drihanek]

I can see that and I agree. Simple design, lost cost labor, lots of money to pay the exec. and do it again next year. So melded arrays, DR250's thumbs up or down for this project?

[Turntablist]

1. Are the melded peizo's better than the compression drivers? I mean is there a reason I want the compression drivers, because the melded arrays look cool but function is better than cool so I was just wondering. 2. Could the DR250's be a good option for the T39's and what I am wanting to replace? I admit I am in love with the DR250/280 look. Actually I love the 300's but I know that is overkill at this point. (But that doesn't mean I can't make some later.

The compressiondrivers will get louder. The horizontal dispertion isn't quite as good at that of the melded array but it is still a lot better than 99% of all the stuff out there so you wont be sorry, at all..
The Dr250 could be an option but it wont pack the same punch for it's size as the OT12 with 3012HO and NSDdrivers. Also the DR250 is quite a timecomsuming build..
The DR300 really isn't a good option unless you have to cover 1000+ people and have some really fancy equipment to fly them..
If you have audiences up to say 1500 people I wouldn't bother building DR300s I'd just expand the fleet of OT12s.