Behringer EP4000

[Ron K]

Anyone try one yet? At a price point of $350.00 w/ free shipping from AMS it offers a ton of power.I have herd good things about the EP2500s. Only negative I can recall is they run very hot but they keep running. If this new beast can have the same reliability then it may get a lot of looks in this tough economy!

[SoundInMotionDJ]

A 120v 20amp outlet can only provide 2400w. Don't get too wrapped up in amp ratings that are higher than that.

--Stan Graves

[Mikey]

The EP4000 manual says that it only draws 15 amps. Is that irrelevant with regards to wattage?

[BrentEvans]

Unless Behringer has invented the ZPM then the Law of Conservation of Energy prevents the output of more engergy into a system than the input into that system. 15A at 120V = 1800W.

[gdougherty]

The EP4000 manual says that it only draws 15 amps. Is that irrelevant with regards to wattage?

Check the conditions for that draw. Is that 1/8 pink noise, full output? My QSC manual lists 3-4 different conditions and relevant power draw.

[gdougherty]

Looking at the manual it's only 550W into 8ohms with 1%THD running just a sine wave. Power specs and weight look similar to the QSC GX5, though the GX5 is Class-H (lower constant current requirements). Personally, I'd take a QSC anyday over a Behringer.

[Mikey]

Several years ago, I bought two EP2500s to replace my dinosaur (but still functioning well) CS800s. I was a bit nervous about buying them, given they're Behringer, but they've been great. No Buyer's remourse at all. I would have rathered Crowns, but I couldn't afford them.

I really don't see why the issue of high power / amps / watts is being brought-up. Every company makes big amps. As long as you're plugging into an adequate circuit, they're fine.

FYI, the EP2000 is class AB, the EP4000 is class H.

The GX5 is 500w @ 8 ohms, 700w @ 4 ohms, per channel. Behringer claims the EP4000 is 550w @ 8 ohms, 950w @ 4 ohms, per channel (emphasis on "claims" ... u know Behringer). The GX5 is $500, the EP4000 is $350.

Given Behringer's track record of reliability (what reliability?), I went out on a limb when I bought the EP2500s, because they were still a relatively new product. There wasn't yet an adequate track record of their reliability. I got lucky. Whether these new amps will have the same sort of reliability as their predecessors is anyones' guess. Maybe, but I wouldn't stake my life on it, that's for damn sure.

[gdougherty]

Gx5's can be had for $350 online

[Ron K]

Unless Behringer has invented the ZPM then the Law of Conservation of Energy prevents the output of more engergy into a system than the input into that system. 15A at 120V = 1800W.

For the sake of argument. Suppose in a given time frame you store 1000 watts of power. Then in another given time frame at a later time you store an additional 1000 watts of power.Both derived from the same source of course but at different times.Then in a third moment in time ( no overlap with the 2 previous times) you release both values of stored energy into the same load.

What would you end up with at that point in time?

[BrentEvans]

You'd have a peak power of 2k watts, but peak power is hardly the thing to measure an amp by. You could engineer a device that could peak out 10kw with sustained throughput of 1w, but once you use that peak power, it's gone. That's why peak power ratings aren't the best thing to judge amps by.

Just to give a reference on the EP-1500 (which is probably indicative of Behringer's methods of measurements), I wasn't able to get more than 40 volts out of it before clip with either sustained pink noise or 1khz tone. 40v at 8Ω = 200wRMS. Behringer's manual states 260 or 280 watts. It's a bit off, unless they're talking about peak power.

[Mikey]

Gx5's can be had for $350 online

My bad. Memory slipping in my old age LOL. I see them at $399 at the online stores, $369 on eBay, but not $350 ... that would definately be a good deal.

With the EP4000 being a new product, it would be safer to pay the little bit more for the GX5, IMO. At least it's been around for a little while, and, while I'm not a brand snob, it's no secret that Behringer has a bad overall track record.

[Mikey]

Brent, in the EP2000/4000 manual, they give both RMS and peak power. Funny how their RMS ratings aren't far from their peak ratings. Behringer has a long history of playing games with their power ratings.

[Ron K]

You'd have a peak power of 2k watts, but peak power is hardly the thing to measure an amp by. You could engineer a device that could peak out 10kw with sustained throughput of 1w, but once you use that peak power, it's gone. That's why peak power ratings aren't the best thing to judge amps by.

Just to give a reference on the EP-1500 (which is probably indicative of Behringer's methods of measurements), I wasn't able to get more than 40 volts out of it before clip with either sustained pink noise or 1khz tone. 40v at 8Ω = 200wRMS. Behringer's manual states 260 or 280 watts. It's a bit off, unless they're talking about peak power.

No argument that peek power is not a good thing to judge amps by. But it is essential to good transient response and a higher crest factor for audio.

EP1500 is a good old fashioned Class AB the 2500 and 4000 are Class H. Class B is around 77 years old already!

Class H is nice but class I is the real deal. What lies ahead in the world of digital switching power supplies?

FWIW the price point makes this a nice solution "if" it retains the same reliability as the 2500s.

[BrentEvans]

, it's no secret that Behringer has a bad overall track record.

Kind of depends on the product. The amps usually do well, get great reviews. I have an EP-1500 personally and have installed EP2500s for others. I find them comparable to QSC units sonically. They actually have a bit less noise than the QSC PLX units that are in my brother-in-law's church. I'd recommend the EP series to anyone on a budget who will treat their equipment well, and from the looks of them, the 2000 and 4000 are just additions to a successful line. We'll see how they pan out. Never trust the power ratings, though.

The mixers are, well, mixed. Some of the newer Xenyx stuff is OK for semi-pro stuff, fairly reliable, the older UB series had a severe headroom problem. Signal chain stuff is decent, recording stuff is mostly poor. You'll never see a high-dollar studio using any of it, but it fills a need here and there. Just give it a good break-in during the return period, and take care of it, and it's usually ok.

That said, if I had more money, I would have (and would again) buy Crown, but those units are just out of my budget (and also that of the church for whom I do much of my work).

Brent, in the EP2000/4000 manual, they give both RMS and peak power*. Funny how their RMS ratings aren't far from their peak ratings. Behringer has a long history of playing games with their power ratings**.

*Indeed they do, and **indeed they do. I skimmed the Ep2000 manual, and it's got some of the same verbiage as the ep1500/2500 manual (things like 100V of potential between circuits), but they don't list peak and RMS in the older manual. I still find it rather difficult to understand (as stated before) that they'd get 2400W RMS out of 120v*15a (1800W). That must be failure tolerance or something.

[Zack Brock]

A 120v 20amp outlet can only provide 2400w. Don't get too wrapped up in amp ratings that are higher than that.

--Stan Graves

Stan is the man, but that statement is not entirely true, or specifically what that statement implies is not always true, as a PA power amplifier can and does store more energy, and can deliver more energy when needed, than what is available to be sucked out of a 120V 20AMP outlet continuously.

Check this for a neat analogy:
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... pter_4.pdf

The “2,400 watt argument” is “half right and
half wrong.” It is correct that you can’t get more
(continuous) power out of the amplifier than the wall
socket can deliver… The salient point here is that
this is ONLY true for a CONTINUOUS average (RMS)
power basis… It is NOT true that the “theoretical
limit” represents the MAXIMUM power that can be
delivered MOMENTARILY from the amplifier (i.e. by
the P = I X R formula). Some modern “power factor
corrected” power amp power supplies modify this
generalized assumption somewhat.