Okay, time to fish or cut bait...

[sstillwell]

I just bought the works...woohoo!

Time to spend money and make decisions and sawdust.

I need the smallest rig that I can fit in a Honda Element (with the back seats out, of course, I'm not a TOTAL moron)

I'm thinking 2x DR200 + 2x T39, and if those go well, make double that much (for when I'll just rent a truck or trailer). Eventually I could see scaling up to 8x each box (4/side). The inital load (2+2) needs to fit in the Honda, though.

Will just a single DR200 on each side of the stage and 2 T39s get me there for the average rock/pop club gig (< 200 occupancy, usually)???

Biggest thing I need to use it for is usually an annual Oktoberfest thing where I'm running sound in the Biergarten tent...LOTS of people (~400), but the volumes aren't crazy, either...it's just oompah at volumes that people can usually talk over unless they're on the dance floor/asphalt.

Power will either be Crown K1/K2 amps (if I can't sell them) or QSC PLX2 stuff, probably 1804. The Crowns are great and VERY efficient, but they also weigh about twice or three times what the 1804s do.

I've got an EV DX38 crossover/processor, so dialing them in isn't going to be a problem.

Wedgehorns may come later...I hate hauling around my Yamaha S115IV boxes, but I love how they sound.

Am I nuts? anything different I should be doing? I do mostly small stuff, but I do want it to scale fairly well, and it MUST get loud and clean if I push it properly. I do NOT blow up gear (that's what the comps and limiters in the DX38 are for, after all).

Thanks!

Scott Stillwell

[sstillwell]

Oh, and btw...Leland, you'll probably be hearing from me soon re: kits.

Scott

[Tim A]

Will just a single DR200 on each side of the stage and 2 T39s get me there for the average rock/pop club gig (< 200 occupancy, usually)???

Oh HELL yes. I use 2 200's and a SINGLE 22" T-39 in rooms up to 150 all the time. Read my 'Vet Fest Success' thread in Reviews RE 3 T-39s and 4 DR200s outdoors.

Wedgehorns may come later...I hate hauling around my Yamaha S115IV boxes, but I love how they sound.

Eh....build one Wedgehorn, compare it to the Yammy in live use, and you'll wonder why you ever used the Yammy.

Am I nuts?

Probably, but you're on the right track nonetheless!

[sstillwell]

Might make sense to say what I'm coming FROM...

Current rig is 2x EV T251+, 4x EV T18, powered by K2 on subs, K2 on tops, controlled by DX38. 4 monitor mixes on 2x K1s.

Beautiful sounding and LOUD...but also big and heavy...and I run the amps right up to their limit to drive it.

Scott

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Will just a single DR200 on each side of the stage and 2 T39s get me there for the average rock/pop club gig (< 200 occupancy, usually)???

Oh yeah...that will be plenty. I prefer a 2:1 ratio for subs:tops, but that is a personal thing.

Biggest thing I need to use it for is usually an annual Oktoberfest thing where I'm running sound in the Biergarten tent...LOTS of people (~400), but the volumes aren't crazy, either...it's just oompah at volumes that people can usually talk over unless they're on the dance floor/asphalt.

The system will probably be OK for moderate volumes in this kind of venue. Outdoors, adding another pair of T39's would probably be good.

I do mostly small stuff, but I do want it to scale fairly well, and it MUST get loud and clean if I push it properly. I do NOT blow up gear (that's what the comps and limiters in the DX38 are for, after all).

I had the same problem. DR200's and T39's make for a great scalable system. I am in 4k-6k sq ft rooms with 500 people almost every weekend. I typically use four DR's and four T39's. I can get things more than loud enough without getting anywhere near the limiter. Boundary loading the subs makes a *huge* difference in the sound in the room.

--Stan Graves

[Tim A]

The DR200's will smoke the EV's in both sound and volume. I hope all of your vocalists are good, because the 200 puts a very fine point on off-key singing. They are very, very clear.

Depending on the size of your 39's, it may be tough for them to live up to a pair of dual 18's. On the other hand they shouldn't be far behind. 14's, no. 20", closer. You can expect a lot from them, but that may be a bit much.

[sstillwell]

The DR200's will smoke the EV's in both sound and volume. I hope all of your vocalists are good, because the 200 puts a very fine point on off-key singing. They are very, very clear.

Depending on the size of your 39's, it may be tough for them to live up to a pair of dual 18's. On the other hand they shouldn't be far behind. 14's, no. 20", closer. You can expect a lot from them, but that may be a bit much.

Actually, that's promising...it's always the TOP amp that's running near redline. The subs kinda loaf along. I ran a gig a couple of weeks ago where somebody called me in to play bass and needed subs as well...I brought two of the T18s and put them under the JBL PRX 15" boxes they had, and it was WAY more than enough to keep up. Of course, the T18 is a scoop-loaded reflex/horn combination box, so yeah...I can see that a pair of T39s MIGHT have problems keeping up with twice the number of 18" semi-horn loaded drivers, and probably 1/4 or less of the piston displacement, even with the T39's full horn loading.

Big difference is...I could get TWO of the T18s, my bass guitar, my amp, some mics, cables, and stands, and that was IT in my Honda. I'll give up a LITTLE of the low end overkill in order to get everything in the car. If I need more grunt, I'll add more T39s and DRs and rent a truck....BOOM.

I was planning on the 20" versions...the 14" version did seem a little anemic for what I wanted to do.

I can't wait!

Scott

[sstillwell]

Measurements of the Honda (minimum clearance...space is actually somewhat larger):

40" W x 40" H x 50" D = approx 46.3 cu. ft. with back seats removed.

Seems pretty much tailor made for these boxes, eh? It'll be tight, but I think I can get them all in there.

Scott

[LelandCrooks]

Oh, and btw...Leland, you'll probably be hearing from me soon re: kits.

Scott

[Tom Smit]

I just bought the works...woohoo!



I'm thinking 2x DR200 + 2x T39, and if those go well, make double that much (for when I'll just rent a truck or trailer). Eventually I could see scaling up to 8x each box (4/side). The inital load (2+2) needs to fit in the Honda, though.

Will just a single DR200 on each side of the stage and 2 T39s get me there for the average rock/pop club gig (< 200 occupancy, usually)???

Biggest thing I need to use it for is usually an annual Oktoberfest thing where I'm running sound in the Biergarten tent...LOTS of people (~400), but the volumes aren't crazy, either...it's just oompah at volumes that people can usually talk over unless they're on the dance floor/asphalt.


Thanks!

Scott Stillwell

Tim A keeps pointing out that 2 DR200's per side is awesome, and has punch. YTou don't have to run them hard, but.... This would help you in the bigger events as well. Therefore, could you luggage rack the two extra on top of the Honda?

TomS

[sstillwell]

heh...no way. If I need the extra boxes, I'll arrange other transport. My main concern is to get a WORKABLE system that will fit entirely in the Element, and won't break my back to load in/out.

Interesting thought, though.

Scott

[Tim A]

I brought two of the T18s and put them under the JBL PRX 15" boxes they had,

Has anyone directed you to this as of yet? If you haven't read it, please do while you're wating for parts to arrive!

http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ?f=1&t=398

[sstillwell]

Yes, I've read it. I was already aware of that...the speakers were not mutually coupled, true, but they WERE against the wall, and cancellation frequency was above the crossover point, so I wasn't too worried. I was speaking casually...one top box WAS actually stacked on the sub (and another box to get it up to proper height) where we could place it against the wall, the other top box was on a stand, with the sub once again over against the wall.

If it hadn't been a jerry-rigged hodgepodge of gear thrown together at the last minute (i.e., if it would have been my entire PA), I would have spent more time and care on it. As it was, it was entirely sufficient for the evening.

Thanks for the pointer, though!

Scott

[sstillwell]

Yay, plans arrived!

Boo, these are gonna be a challenge to build.

Well, I'll take my time...I'll get there eventually.

Any opinions on what is "too cheap" on a table saw? I saw this Firestorm (Black & Decker) unit at Lowes...

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none

What would be the best case list of tools needed?

Table Saw
Router
Brad Nailer
Jigsaw
Circular Saw
Drill
Square

I'm not in a huge hurry...I guess I'm starting the measure twice, cut once now...except it's LOOK twice, BUY once.

Scott

[Tim A]

Table Saw: Get one with table extensions, 10" blade.
Router: Get a convertible kit, regular base and plunge base. 2Hp minimum.
Brad Nailer: And an air compressor to go with it. Get one large enough to run a texture gun for spraying finish. You could also go electric and roll your finish.
Jigsaw: Not much here, you'll need one, but a simple one is fine for the little you'll use it.
Circular Saw: 7 1/4", 2Hp min. Fine plywood blade and carbide rip blade.
Drill: Absolutely. Cordless, variable speed, minumum 14v, 2 batteries. Screwdriver bits. Some guys like 18v, the charges lasts longer. I like 14v, they're lighter.
Square: Framing, aluminum, not steel.

Random Orbital sander. Lots of good ones to choose from.
Jasper Jig from PE for cutting circles. Stupid simple, foolproof, perfect circles.

A power miter will make life easier, not a necessity.

As for brands, you can spend as much or as little as you like. DeWalt, Porter Cable, etc. on the high end. Do some research too, don't just go by brand. For instance the Skil convertable router kit that sells for $89 won several awards from the woodworking magazines. At $89, it's a sleeper. I ended up getting one to add to my arsenal of 4 routers. So too is the $39 RO Sander from Ryobi. It smokes anything else in it's price range and will keep up with sanders costing twice as much.

Just like cabinet materials, buy once, cry once. Get the best you can afford the first time out.