4- DR250 and 2-Tuba 36 Dual 12" review

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guitarfreak
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4- DR250 and 2-Tuba 36 Dual 12" review

#1 Post by guitarfreak »

First-time post-er wanted to give you my opinions and views on my two projects in the last year; the Tuba 36 with 2 12" Magnum 12's each, and my 4-DR250's with 1016 peizos and Deltalite 2510's. I play in a band (rocknroll) and also play a lot of recorded music as an amateur DJ for friends when they need it.

Tuba 36 - I found this site after hearing some B-52's at a show and being really impressed at the bass output (even though I know NOW how disappointing with true, accurate bass output they really are). I had been using some EV Eliminator subs and then, striving for better, punchier bass, built a pair of C-subs from speakerplans.com loaded with Eminence Kilomax 18's. I didn't know much about folded horns, and did some searches on "folded horns" and found the BFM site. I built one T36 28" with dual 12's as a trial run, and used it at a gig on one side of the stage along with my 2 EV eliminators on the other (yes, I know how many rules I have broken here, but I have learned a lot since then in the last year or so). I was powering them with Crown Microtech 2400's. I was simply amazed how different the outputs were between the two sides. the T36 simply produced a cleaner, punchier, and more full low-end. The Eliminators struggled to produce any bass at all beyond about 20' from the stage, and the bass they did produce was very mono-tonish (is that a word?!), and wimpy. During some breaks, I played around with using just one or the other side, and by the end of the night, I was filling the club with clean, powerful bass with just the one T36 (the Eliminators were never used again). I then built another, and have never looked back. Outside gigs are a breeze with 2-T36's side-by-side where before I would struggle when using those the Eliminators and C-subs (together and individually). The smaller indoor shows only need one T36, which simplifies load-in. People actually sometimes tell me to turn the bass down - something I had never heard before. I do not know how the Dual 12 version compares to the single 15 version for clean, clear bass, but I would not (and have not) fail to recommend the T36 Dual 12 to anyone doing DJ work or even in a live band. Thanks to everyone for the carpeting tips and other tips that helped me build these.

DR250 - Started these in late march, I have used the 4 of them in 2 shows so far (one indoors, the other outside). I previously used some old Carvin speakers (3-way) that graciously thanked my use by blowing the high-end horns often. I figured I could do better, and built some 3-way cabinets using all JBL speakers (15" bass, 10" mids, and 1" CD highs). Given the sheer awasomeness of the T36's, I decided on 4 DR250's (thanks Bill, and Tim Ard reviews for convincing me to do this). Being an extremely amateur builder, I quicky hit that - "Why the heck am I putting this much effort into these speakers; it CAN'T be worth it!" stage that some have referred to with the DR's. BIG thanks to Tim and DJ Ronn for your April reviews on the 4 DR250's - you guys kept me going through with the build to completion! I finally fired the finished speakers up at an indoor show the first of this month (finished the carpet the night before), and pumped some recorded music through them and the T36's. Tears welled up in my eyes when I heard just HOW GOOD the music sounded through this system (especially emotional after all the effort put into building the DR's). The highs were there, and not "ripping my head off" as the JBL CD horns did (even after thorough EQ). The midrange was very much there, making me realize just how much mid-highs, mids, and mid-lows had been missing from my previous boxes. The blend was nothing short of amazing, and everyone in the band commented how great the sound was. Then we played - I got more compliments on the sound than I had ever received before (I mix from the stage). Many told me that though we were loud, the mix was so good (no ear-splitting frequencies) that noone cared - it was "not painful-loud anymore" is what I was told. The club owner spoke to me after the show and expressed his pleasure, telling me we were clearly the best-sounding band that he hires. I have been in his club before, and the other bands use JBL, EV systems with hired soundmen out in front, so that was a compliment I took to heart. I only heard one "piezos stink" comment, and laughed at him when he said it (that felt good). :twisted: Our outside gig the next day (a "party in the park" in KS) was especially challenging, with a crowd of 300-500 people scattered throughout a large town-central park. The 4-DR's and 2-T36's performed extremely well, and I got many compliments on the great sound. The music I played in between our sets sounded full, crisp, and punchy, and even sounded good about 300' back from the stage, near the rear of the park. I am no longer in fear of outside gigs causing me all kinds of PA pain and possible blown speakers.

So to summarize, the T-36 dual 12's and the 4- DR250's are awesome, sound better than anything I have ever used, and are well worth the expenditure of effort to build. Thanks for the exceptional designs, Bill, and thanks to all of those contributing tips, reviews, and excellent questions which helped me during the builds! I will take some pictures of my setup in the future and offer them on the site.

DJ Big Ronn
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#2 Post by DJ Big Ronn »

Excellent review "Guitarfreak". I'm elated to hear that you are so pleased with you speakers. Hearing is believing, but like myself, you built on faith and word. The sound of your set-up is enough to bring tears to your eye's, but like you stated, with the emotional stress of building them, it's like having a new born baby when you hear them. Now that I think about it, it was a whole lot less work making the baby's. :lol: Great job!

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Tim A
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#3 Post by Tim A »

Well, Hot damn!

Glad you're so happy with them...especially glad since it appears you were lurking about and reading my posts.

They really are an earful. I love the 'piezos suck' comment, what a maroon!

Cheers, and many more good shows to you and your band!

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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#4 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Tim Ard wrote: I love the 'piezos suck' comment, what a maroon!
Probably one of the 'experts' from Harmony Central. :roll:

DJ Big Ronn
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#5 Post by DJ Big Ronn »

I never went to that site, and from the sounds of things Bill, that may be a good thing. What's the deal there, a bunch of armchair audio engineers?

guitarfreak
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#6 Post by guitarfreak »

I forgot to add that another beatiful aspect of the DR250 is it's portability. The homemade mid-high boxes and subs I had made before were both done using 3/4" MDF. Not sure what I was thinking when I did that! Though they had wheels on them, lifting them into the trailer/truck broke my back every time I did it. As I am getting older, I need something easier to move around; something I don't need a crane to transport! I can carry 2 DR250's at once, one in each hand, and I LOVE that. The T36's aren't too bad either, compared to my old subs.

Yeah, Ronn, it is kind of like the DR's are my new kids/baby's now. I can't make them mow the lawn or do the dishes for me, though. Bummer.

Chris

DJ Big Ronn
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#7 Post by DJ Big Ronn »

It's not a big deal, my kids dont do it anyway. Are you stacking your 250's on your subs, or on sticks?

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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#8 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

DJ Big Ronn wrote:I never went to that site, and from the sounds of things Bill, that may be a good thing. What's the deal there, a bunch of armchair audio engineers?
That, and their focus, which is to sell advertising and gear. It's owned by Musician's Friend/GC, so the last thing they're interested in is giving DIY a fair shake and in so doing losing potential sales.

DJ Big Ronn
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#9 Post by DJ Big Ronn »

I see, so they are a closed minded bunch. I know that most people wont believe this, and the equipment is only a part of what I do, but I just booked two more jobs that normally book a band. The guy told me that I was the first Dj that had the dynamics of live music and played all of the hits, without the 2000.00 price tag. Bill you are my hero. When I start booking jobs partly because of the sound of my equipment, My hat's off to you!! . You have my utmost respect.

Strapping Young Stu
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#10 Post by Strapping Young Stu »

DJ Big Ronn wrote:I see, so they are a closed minded bunch. I know that most people wont believe this, and the equipment is only a part of what I do, but I just booked two more jobs that normally book a band. The guy told me that I was the first Dj that had the dynamics of live music and played all of the hits, without the 2000.00 price tag. Bill you are my hero. When I start booking jobs partly because of the sound of my equipment, My hat's off to you!! . You have my utmost respect.
To me that returns my faith in mankind to appreciate good, not just loud sound!

Perhaps we are making some progress?

Stu

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Tim A
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#11 Post by Tim A »

DJ Big Ronn wrote: What's the deal there, a bunch of armchair audio engineers?
Bill Fitzmaurice wrote: That, and their focus, which is to sell advertising and gear. It's owned by Musician's Friend/GC, so the last thing they're interested in is giving DIY a fair shake and in so doing losing potential sales.
It's worse, and more than either of those descriptions. Go and read some of their gear reviews. It's like you went back to the 5th grade, but everyone writes at a 3rd grade level. Everything over there must be taken with a LARGE dose of salt.

WOW DUDE! THIS SQUIRE AFFINATY IS THE RADDEST GUITAR I EVER HAD. IT RAWKS!!!!! I USED 2 HAVE A IBINAZ, BUT THIS SQUIRE IS AS GOOD AS A AMERICAN GUITAR ANYDAY!!!! WHY SPEND ALL UR MONEY ON A AMERICAN GUITAR WHEN THIS IS BETTER????

Ok, I made that up, but it's pretty accurate!

bgavin
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#12 Post by bgavin »

DJ Big Ronn wrote:I see, so they are a closed minded bunch.
They are focused on their business plan.
That plan does not include self-castration by giving air time to superior designs.
My biggest worry is that when I'm dead and gone, my wife will sell my toys for what I said I paid for them.

JReynolds
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#13 Post by JReynolds »

Did a gig on Saturday 06-16-2007 in Santee (North of San Diego). Had two T36 2x12's 27" width. After the band was done we put on hip hop and dance music till 1:30 in the morning and you could hear that stuff thumping a block and a half away. Not to shabby for two subs.

Live sound is cool with Tubas but they REALLY shine when bumping dance music and Rap. The girls (lots of em!) loved it and danced all night. Of all the nights not to have my camera... :cry:

Hell I even ran them with the HPF at 20Hz and the subsonic synth engaged on my DRPA. I ran them much louder than they should have with that super subsonic mix on them and they took it ALL NIGHT LONG :twisted: Freakish things those dual twelve cabinets. My main limitation with them seems to be how much power I can get out of the wall.

Hands down the way to go if you want a simple two sub, no compromise rig.
Life aint what you want, its what you are.

Wes Whitmore
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#14 Post by Wes Whitmore »

So tell us more about the T36 27: wide 2x12. What drivers, amps, crossover setting, mains? How did you load them? I can't get enough of these reviews!
Thanks,
Wes

JReynolds
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#15 Post by JReynolds »

Dual Eminence Definemax 4012's.

Carvin DCM 2500 running the subs

Carvin DCM 2500 running the highs.

My current highs project isn't ready yet so we took some Carvin TRX 3-ways and a pair of JBL JRX-125'a to try out some new DSP settins. Not really liking the TRX's; sounding VERY loud but sterile and harsh. No amount of EQ trickery is getting a pleasant sound from them. We unhooked them after goofing off with em for a couple hours and put up the JBL's instead.

The JBL's where fine as the amount of area to cover wasn't to large and I know lots of tricks to get decent sound out of them.

Had the subs running crossed over at 80hz 24Db/oct. Gain of +6db. Have a 3db boost at 60Hz shelved on the DRPA. The HPF portion of the the low channel ran at 40Hz for the live part of the gig, then down to 20Hz for the dance music. I raised it up to 30Hz for a little while when we went to the moon with the volume. Ran the low freq limiters at -3db with softknee on 1.

Ran the highs crossed over at 80hz 24db/oct. Gain of 3db. Top secret eq trickery (I can't remember the exact settings :oops: ) on the mids; those cabs don't really sound that great until you put a little spice in the mix. Had the high channel limiter set to engage at +3db softknee on 1.

Ran LR channel compression to engage at +6db, softknee 1, 1.5 ratio, and gain of +6db.

Sub synth settings varied through the night as I was experimenting a lot as the volume adjusted up or down. I DID NOT USE THE SUB HARMONIC SYNTH ON THE LIVE PORTION OF THE SHOW.

The cabs were place on either side of the band about 30ft apart with the subs used to raise up the mains. Not my favorite way to run the subs but they were both up against a wall so we had some nice boundary rienforcment picking up the slack we lost from not coupling the subs together.

A bit of a strange mix on my DRPA but it sounded GREAT for the dance portion of the gig and I simply saved the mix in a different slot when I was done tweaking. My original live sound settings are quite a bit different.
Life aint what you want, its what you are.

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