Lots of hate on some other forums

[Bryan Cox]

I found myself perusing other other audio forums....I know, I'm a cheater. But I value information and ideas of all types. While I was reading, each forum inevitably had a thread on BFM cabs from future DIYers asking for advice. I don't think I've ever seen this much hate. The amount of distaste for great designs was overwhelming. Come to think of it, pretty much any/all outside design ideas we scoffed at, but the BFM designs were shit on entirely. There were maybe two guys who'd actually built any of Bill's designs and their reviews were the most objective and honest. Everyone else's were just hate. And to make matters even more subjective, they hadn't built any of the cabs, read the forums, or even looked at the plans. These guys were total ass hats.

Don't get me wrong, ignorance is everywhere. But willful ignorance (and talking shit on top of it) f****** piss me off to no end. I'd like to take a trash can lid, shove it down their d*** holes, and moon walk across it.

Which brings me back here. So glad I chose the BFM site over the others. I haven't seen hate or intolerance even once since 2013. Are there maybe other designs out there that work just as well? Probably. There's never just one solution. But I haven't seen as much knowledge, kindness, generosity, wisdom, and sarcasm is the same place. Oh yeah, and we can build speakers too.

In short, thanks for all you guys do. I appreciate the privilege of being here. And I swear, I'll never see other forums again.

[J_Dunavin]

YAAA i posted my BFM gear on a loudspeaker page on social media. Most asked some serious questions, but there were a few that hated.
It's just comical to me, those who spout off really have never heard a BFM set up and have nothing to compare it to. Is there better out there? Sure, but not for the money, and sure as heck no better forum. This community hands down is the best, great knowledge base with fellas who are more than willing to help each other. Shoot, I've even talked to more than one guy on the phone about a technical question that i needed help on in a pinch, OR just asking for advise. The other awesome thing about everyone on here is that they are humble enough to say, 'well, this is what has worked for me'. Not arrogant in their advice like it's only one way or the highway, kind of attitude.

By the way just did another outside gig with my gear and had great compliments from the crowd and people in charge too!

[Bruce Weldy]

By the way just did another outside gig with my gear and had great compliments from the crowd and people in charge too!

And that's all that matters....


Years ago, if you didn't have JBL, you had crap. Now, everyone trashes JBL....(talking about their big, pro stuff). There is always those who belong to the flavor of the month club.

There was a long-time PA provider here in town who passed away recently.....he was analog all the time. ONLY analog...digital was crap, etc.....finally couldn't get gigs anymore because the big acts came to town with their flash drives to load their shows, but he wouldn't cross-rent to provide 'em with a Digico, or a Yamaha, or Avid....thus, he went out of business.

I did some shows on his system a few times....nice line array rig. Once I used my Presonus - he called it a toy. I just smiled and went on to make the band I was mixing sound way better than the bigger act that brought their high-dollar Soundcraft.......which he admitted. Bottom line, he was just an analog gear snob. Which was too bad, because he really knew his stuff - just couldn't get past his prejudices.

That's where a lot of these haters are - they go online and trash systems based on their Ford vs. Chevy mentality, but don't even own one of their own.

Everything has it's place. I've mixed on a few of the big JBL, Martin, QSC and RCF line arrays. Great sounding systems. But, we don't compete with that. Bill's systems offer us an inexpensive way to have to great sounding system and a lot more system than we could get with the same money buying off the shelf.....and it all runs off a single 15A circuit.

This is a good place to be.....

[CoronaOperator]

I found myself perusing other other audio forums....I know, I'm a cheater. But I value information and ideas of all types. While I was reading, each forum inevitably had a thread on BFM cabs from future DIYers asking for advice. I don't think I've ever seen this much hate. The amount of distaste for great designs was overwhelming. Come to think of it, pretty much any/all outside design ideas we scoffed at, but the BFM designs were shit on entirely. There were maybe two guys who'd actually built any of Bill's designs and their reviews were the most objective and honest. Everyone else's were just hate. And to make matters even more subjective, they hadn't built any of the cabs, read the forums, or even looked at the plans. These guys were total ass hats.

Is this the forum where they hate on anything DJ or DJ related too and don't like fake names? They scoff at anything DIY unless designed by one of their own members. At the upper leagues there is a lot of merit to stay away from DIY; liabilty when you hang speakers, resale - especially for an equity loan or insurance purposes, rider acceptance, the fact that if your gear catches fire you can replace commercial gear the same day, etc.

However, BFM fills the niche for weekend warriors who are not doing stadiums as a full time job. You get a lot of system that sounds better than all but the most expensive commercial offerings with BFM for reasonable $$. As was said it will all run off a single 15 amp circuit (more important than you think when you do smaller venues) and as you grow, these tops (except simplex) are all arrayable, you can stack more cabinets to grow. You can't do that with point source speakers. As far as DIY goes, you have not just the plans but step by step instructions and a great forum to help you along the way to not only complete the build, but to get you up and operating at their best as well. It doesn't get any better.

[Bryan Cox]

It's just comical to me, those who spout off really have never heard a BFM set up and have nothing to compare it to.

I found that hilarious. The ones with the worst things to say openly admitted that they'd never heard a BFM system. That made me discount all of their points out of hand.

[Bryan Cox]

I found myself perusing other other audio forums....I know, I'm a cheater. But I value information and ideas of all types. While I was reading, each forum inevitably had a thread on BFM cabs from future DIYers asking for advice. I don't think I've ever seen this much hate. The amount of distaste for great designs was overwhelming. Come to think of it, pretty much any/all outside design ideas we scoffed at, but the BFM designs were shit on entirely. There were maybe two guys who'd actually built any of Bill's designs and their reviews were the most objective and honest. Everyone else's were just hate. And to make matters even more subjective, they hadn't built any of the cabs, read the forums, or even looked at the plans. These guys were total ass hats.

Is this the forum where they hate on anything DJ or DJ related too and don't like fake names? They scoff at anything DIY unless designed by one of their own members. At the upper leagues there is a lot of merit to stay away from DIY; liabilty when you hang speakers, resale - especially for an equity loan or insurance purposes, rider acceptance, the fact that if your gear catches fire you can replace commercial gear the same day, etc.

[/quote

Yeah that was one, for sure.

[/quote
However, BFM fills the niche for weekend warriors who are not doing stadiums as a full time job. You get a lot of system that sounds better than all but the most expensive commercial offerings with BFM for reasonable $$. As was said it will all run off a single 15 amp circuit (more important than you think when you do smaller venues) and as you grow, these tops (except simplex) are all arrayable, you can stack more cabinets to grow. You can't do that with point source speakers. As far as DIY goes, you have not just the plans but step by step instructions and a great forum to help you along the way to not only complete the build, but to get you up and operating at their best as well. It doesn't get any better.

That's why we're all here, I think. And you can ask questions about other designs without getting totally flamed.

[Bryan Cox]

There is always those who belong to the flavor of the month club.

Would those be the hipsters?

[Chris_Allen]

There have been some oxygen stealers over the years but they don't last long, not because they get hounded out, but because nobody bites.

There have been a few people we can't help because there isn't a design that fits their requirement. There are those that you can't help because they don't listen, don't explain or what they want doesn't actually meet the requirements of the problem.

We still like to disagree with each other on occasion though

[J_Dunavin]

"We still like to disagree with each other on occasion though "

Nu uhhh - no we don't

[Bruce Weldy]

Nu uhhh - no we don't

Yes, we do....

[Bryan Cox]

Disagreements amongst a bunch of testosterone-filled dudes about things that amount to the subjective nature of what sounds good....?

I've never experienced this phenomenon.

[Starchild]

Nu uhhh - no we don't

Yes, we do....

No,we don't

[AcousticScience]

I think the main complaints about BFM gear I've read are lack of available fly gear, rider acceptance (due to variations in build quality) and resale value, but for good sound in clubs, bars and parks they do quite well. Also, flying any DIY cab with people of varying skill levels and varying plywood quality could be a lawsuit. Other than that there are a few scientific comments about comb filtering, and cheap piezo tweeters, how well a bent midrange horn mates with piezo tweeters, and power handling of recommended subwoofer drivers.

That and people with basic processing (e.g. only bass and treble and mid and a single unit crossover, no Driverack or other brand of loudspeaker management system will have problems getting a good sound out of the box. My Omnitop 12 sound "clanky and shrieky" until you reduce, 1.6k, 2.0k and 2.5k by at least 6dB. Plugging them into the back of my Aiwa mini system will not produce a pleasing sonic signature. I haven't built SLA Pro speakers but I have seem the frequency response is far more even straight out of the box.

There is a guy on Prosoundweb who was using 3 DR280(/290?) a side on big shows and upgraded the Eminence Drivers to BMS but that's more about the driver power handling than the cab.

Also I've seen pictures of wooden linkage pieces but as far as I know it is illegal to use any flying method that uses attachments to the sides of the cabs to support a column of loudspeakers below it. With sufficient load, the attachments could rip out and drop the column of loudspeakers on someone's head! An external certified rigging frame must be used. A "stage stack line array" with a few boxes is more the application of these DR300 style boxes, rather than hanging 10 a side in the sky and playing a stadium. I mean I've added DIY tilt mounts to my Omnitop 12 but a single cab on a stick isn't much load. The question then becomes: where can I purchase flyware for a DR300? Most of the name brands (D&B, Meyer, JBL, Nexo) will have custom flyware available, thus I can't see Amsterdam Sensation done with columns of DR300 any time soon, though my setup can slam a village hall quite well.

Also, what other speakers? Coming from Peavey HiSys I would probably rave about the sound quality, but Danley SH50 not so much.

As far as DIY, every design started out as DIY at some point, and there are some smaller companies that have recently strung out of the DIY market and gotten bigger by the looks of things. In the Uk: Stable Audio, Soundgear, Barefaced. In the US, JTR Speakers.

[Bryan Cox]

AcousticScience. Those are great points and they're objectively stated.

The fly gear is a concern for those trying to run the DR cabs in a traditional line array configuration. But what could the fix be? Without a standardized options, DIYers are forced to DIY. Would one get a license from a structural engineer?

I agree that it's pointless to build concert PA tops with no way to apply them. Honestly, that's why I stick to boxes I can stick on poles...Otop 12 and maybe DR200 in the future.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The fly gear is a concern for those trying to run the DR cabs in a traditional line array configuration. But what could the fix be?

It's in the plans. The stacking brackets should not be used for flying, but they'll work just fine with a scaffold, or other means that essentially ground stacks them. For instance:

http://www.dancetronauts.com/?fbclid=Iw ... 9biYPRIzck