Coffee House PA Advice Needed

[jbass]

A couple of friends and I are thinking of putting together an acoustic trio to play coffee house/small venue gigs. The lineup would be vocals, acoustic guitar, acoustic bass guitar (five string) and percussion (cajon, congas and stomp box in the lower frequency ranges). We have ample PA for larger gigs (including a pair of Jack 10s I built), but we want this PA to be as unobtrusive as possible so as not to frighten the venue owners. In addition, we want our cartage and setup/tear-down to be as minimal and quick as possible (easy in/easy out). Here are the basic parameters:

- small, lightweight components
- adequate "low volume" coverage for larger rooms and outdoor gigs
- respectable low end appropriate to the instruments being used
- budget of $300-500

I looked around on the Web for ideas and didn't find much which caught my interest apart from the Kustom PW50 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... -pa-system). What I like about the PW50 is that it's nicely small and light, there's no need for an external power amp, it can be used in multiples and with a sub, the ratings are surprisingly good and it's dirt cheap at $99 each. This could be our solution...were it not for the fact that I like to build things. So, would a pair of half size SLA Pros be a good place to start? They're in the same ballpark in terms of size and I know they'll sound much better than the PW50.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[LelandCrooks]

Slah pro, any of the jacks.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Two 4.5 inch midbasses and a single piezo tweeter is OK for a home stereo speaker, but woefully inadequate for pro-sound, even at coffee house levels. A 2x6 SLA Pro would be the equivalent of at least two of those.

[sine143]

2 half size sla pro, slim auto tuba for a bit of lowend? (Or truck tuba or t18 etc)

[kekani]

Use your Jack 110's. $0. Done.

I've done a really small gig with a pair of J110's stacked on the same stand. We were petty much sitting over the speaker stand leg, but I was counting on the stack to "go lower" for me bass. We had no real issues.

I wished there was room for monitors though.

[jbass]

2 half size sla pro, slim auto tuba for a bit of lowend? (Or truck tuba or t18 etc)

Are the Auto Tuba or T18 subs viable options for this use? The sizes are about right. I'm anticipating we'll need low end presence more than palpable thump.

[Grant Bunter]

Your only "issue" as I see it is the stomp box.
With it's rapid high peaking attack in LF (particularly if it's channel strip EQ'ed like a kick drum).

I've been working with a few people who use them of late, and, by and large, many think that, with full range mains, having to turn the stomp box down to prevent overexcursion is a good thing for the cabs, but not for the performance.

SLA pros are a great suggestion. I'd also consider a small sub, which could be tucked away in the performance area to be unobtrusive. Say something roughly the size of a cahon

Oh, and a cahon through a sub, miked and EQ'ed like a kick drum, sounds great

[jbass]

That's a good point about the stomp box. I'll do some research into these devices to see how other people handle the peaks.

[slavedave]

If it helps, I used a T18 as a low end enhancer for several years in a church service environment (keys, guitars , v-drums , mic'd cahon, mic'd congas, mic'd bodhran etc) plus at coffee shops and free-to-view film screenings in large rooms (30ft X 60ft) and it was plenty loud enough to be heard over loud talking with up to 200 people present. I don't think you would be disappointed with one.
We currently use a single TLAH Pro as our PA - it doesn't go as low as when we used a T18 with a home built Bose L1 ripoff, but volume is not an issue. We feed it with all the mic'd instruments still but it hasn't got the "thump" as it did when we used a sub, but we counterbalance the reduction in low bass with ease of set up with the TLAH Pro these days.
I could imagine the SLA Pro would be pretty useful in your context.

[jbass]

Your only "issue" as I see it is the stomp box.
With it's rapid high peaking attack in LF (particularly if it's channel strip EQ'ed like a kick drum).

I've been working with a few people who use them of late, and, by and large, many think that, with full range mains, having to turn the stomp box down to prevent overexcursion is a good thing for the cabs, but not for the performance.

I wasn't able to any useful information about stomp box peaks being an issue. Rather, it seems that everyone just plugs them in, tweaks the EQ and goes for it. Presumably at least some users of these devices use compression to tame the peaks and perhaps most others simply don't crank them up far enough to cause problems. Whatever the case, I still agree that the potential for speaker damage exists. Food for thought.

[jbass]

If it helps, I used a T18 as a low end enhancer for several years....

Yes, that does help. It looks like the SLA Pros start rolling off around 100Hz, so all we'd need is something to bump up the bottom octave or so to make the lows audible.

[kekani]

I just demoed my J112L's for a dj. He ran dance music while they were on sticks, outdoors, under a very very high freeway overpass. I told him he should use a sub, but it still thumped. I put one on the ground, & if he had the cash, I'd be out a pair of Jacks.

I still say try your Jacks stacked, or 1 & a sub, just from a budget perspective.

Unless of course you just want an excuse to build something- SLA Pros are cool!

[Grant Bunter]

Your only "issue" as I see it is the stomp box.
With it's rapid high peaking attack in LF (particularly if it's channel strip EQ'ed like a kick drum).

I've been working with a few people who use them of late, and, by and large, many think that, with full range mains, having to turn the stomp box down to prevent overexcursion is a good thing for the cabs, but not for the performance.

I wasn't able to any useful information about stomp box peaks being an issue. Rather, it seems that everyone just plugs them in, tweaks the EQ and goes for it. Presumably at least some users of these devices use compression to tame the peaks and perhaps most others simply don't crank them up far enough to cause problems. Whatever the case, I still agree that the potential for speaker damage exists. Food for thought.

Even if it's not a peaks issue per se, or that the peak are tamed with compression, it is a device that requires LF capability.
That's certainly not available in SLA pros.
So sure, try your Jacks. It might be fine.
I reckon the SLA pros have the slimmer less obtrusive profile you're looking for in the market you are looking to play though.

If you don't have sub, dry hire one for a day and check it out at rehearsal.
Taking LF out of the Jacks will free them up too.
And then you'll know if you need to build a small sub

[jbass]

Unless of course you just want an excuse to build something- SLA Pros are cool!

But of course! You wouldn't want my brand new table saw to collect any dust other than sawdust, would you?

[jbass]

And then you'll know if you need to build a small sub

I'm already convinced that a sub is in order. I'm sure the SLA Pros would be quite adequate with vocals, guitar and most percussion, but my five string acoustic bass and the cajon need some love as well. Right now I'm leaning toward a T18 for its size and efficiency.