Considering Presonus Studio Live 16.0

[doncolga]

Hey all,

I currently use my DEQ 2496 for only a little bit of graphic EQ and usually three bands of parametric. Should the EQ's on the Presonus be able to handle the same duty? My understanding is I'd have the 31 band EQ on the mains and the Fat Channel can be used there as well. Does that sound feasible?

I'd make my current small Behringer mixer the "B" rig for concurrent setups (usually wedding ceremonies with that one and the receptions for the other).

Thanks!

Donny

[dswpro]

That kind of thing works well for me.
I used my DEQ to flatten out my system outdoors last summer and haven't really touched it since. I use an X32 for most gigs and often tweak the master EQ (parametric and 31 band patched in ) to "tune the room". I don't bother with an RTA per venue (I hate to put restaurant and bar patrons through anything like that) but I will play music and set the EQ so things sound natural. I will even tweak the EQ during performances if need be. Much easier from your mix position than having to run back and forth to the amp rack (I keep my DEQ with my DCX in my amp rack back stage. )

[Bruce Weldy]

That kind of thing works well for me.
I used my DEQ to flatten out my system outdoors last summer and haven't really touched it since. I use an X32 for most gigs and often tweak the master EQ (parametric and 31 band patched in ) to "tune the room". I don't bother with an RTA per venue (I hate to put restaurant and bar patrons through anything like that) but I will play music and set the EQ so things sound natural. I will even tweak the EQ during performances if need be. Much easier from your mix position than having to run back and forth to the amp rack (I keep my DEQ with my DCX in my amp rack back stage. )

Pretty much same here. Driverack EQ sets the system to flat outside, then the Presonus handle the venue. Inside, I almost always RTA the room real quick using the SMAART sofware that comes with the Presonus. That's done with the FAT channel controls. Then I use the graphic to clean it up......and that's always with the iPad now....it's just so much easier to walk the room - it was heavy carrying that board around.

[doncolga]

Is there a limiter on the Fat Channel on this thing? Could it act as brickwall on the main bus? That would be really handy...

[Bruce Weldy]

Is there a limiter on the Fat Channel on this thing? Could it act as brickwall on the main bus? That would be really handy...

There is a limiter, but I doubt that it is a brickwall. Anyway, it's too easy to make changes on a mixer. I really like the limiter hidden away safely on the driverack.

Interesting aside.....the kid band that I've run sound for occasionally the last couple of years is finally getting their own PA. The kid who is taking ownership and leading the way with the PA asked me today if the there was a way to limit the mains and subs so they couldn't blow them up.....pretty mature question - I was proud of him for asking.

I'll be building their rack panel and helping 'em get it all running. Not BFM, but it will be decent and better than they've been working with....except when I take my stuff, of course.

[Chris_Allen]

I've been pouring over digital mixers for well over a year now and I think the Allen & Heath QU-16 is the one for me.

I lack of motorised faders on the Presonus is a killer for me.

[Bruce Weldy]

lack of motorised faders on the Presonus is a killer for me.

Just wondering......what exactly will you be using them for?

They are handy in the studio or when running live sound where you big stage changes or personnel changes, but other than that I don't see it.

I've yet to see a time where I've because I didn't have 'em. Not with my band or the many shows I've done for others.

If I'm missing out on something they do that has gone over my head, I'd like to hear......but, I'd put many things above moving faders when purchasing a board. If all things are equal, then that could be a deciding factor.....but they always cost more.

And yeah, I have the Presonus, but there are a lot of good digital boards out there now - Soundcraft, A&H, even the new Behringer.....so I'm not speaking from a Ford vs. Chevy perspective.

[dswpro]

Moving faders are a help in the following scenarios:
Presets where fader levels are stored and recalled.
Mix automation where fader movements are recorded along a timeline like SMPTE, or MIDI.
Console layers (more inputs or outputs than physical faders) allowing you to quickly switch between input or output layers.
Adjusting aux sends or monitor mixes with the faders as opposed to knobs. (sends on faders)
EQ - in the X32 the right hand console faders also become graphic EQ adjusters.
Faders are preferrable in nearly all volume adjustments since they display good resolution of the audio scale, and relative levels are easily seen at a glance.
Yes they are more expensive but they are pretty reliable. I've replaced maybe 6 faders out of the couple hundred on the Yamaha consoles I've operated over the last ten years or so.

Don Sullivan

[Bruce Weldy]

Moving faders are a help in the following scenarios:
Presets where fader levels are stored and recalled.
Mix automation where fader movements are recorded along a timeline like SMPTE, or MIDI.
Console layers (more inputs or outputs than physical faders) allowing you to quickly switch between input or output layers.
Adjusting aux sends or monitor mixes with the faders as opposed to knobs. (sends on faders)
EQ - in the X32 the right hand console faders also become graphic EQ adjusters.
Faders are preferrable in nearly all volume adjustments since they display good resolution of the audio scale, and relative levels are easily seen at a glance.
Yes they are more expensive but they are pretty reliable. I've replaced maybe 6 faders out of the couple hundred on the Yamaha consoles I've operated over the last ten years or so.

Don Sullivan

Don, all of that is true, but not at all applicable to the average 16 channel user. It sounds as if you are involved in much larger applications if you have a Yamaha with moving faders......those don't come cheap - certainly not to do weekend warrior kinda' work.

I'm pretty sure that none of the mixers discussed (Presonus, A&H, etc.) have multi-layers or auxes that are assignable to faders. In a typical band situation needing to recall fader positions is just not necessary - sound check puts the faders where they need to be. Anyway, regardless of the fader position, the gain knobs aren't motorized so if they have been moved, the fader position means nothing.

Motorized faders are great in large production situations where changing scenes during a show is a must and needs to happen instantly. It sounds like you are involved in that level of sound. But, that's not the scenario that we are discussing here.

The only place that I can see motorized faders could be handy in a small setting would be when using an iPad for mixing and having the faders respond when you return to the board. The presonus does not do that, however, when you use the iPad, it automatically puts the board in LOCATE mode - that will give you an led above every fader showing where you have to move the fader to get it to match the changes that have been made. Once you make the changes, you hit the LOCATE button again and everthing is back to normal.

My point is still that I wouldn't make not having moving faders on a small format board for live sound a deal-killer.

And, I do use moving faders in the studio......very handy for mixdown and recalling positions from song to song.

[BrentEvans]

Don, all of that is true, but not at all applicable to the average 16 channel user. It sounds as if you are involved in much larger applications if you have a Yamaha with moving faders......those don't come cheap - certainly not to do weekend warrior kinda' work.

The Soundcraft Si Expression, A&H QU 16, and X32 are all in the same price class as the Presonus and make good use of moving faders.

I'm pretty sure that none of the mixers discussed (Presonus, A&H, etc.) have multi-layers or auxes that are assignable to faders.

All of them do except Presonus. Presonus is the oddball. I've used them outside in the sun and the LEDs have bad wash. You can always see where a fader knob is on the others even if you can't see the LEDs.

In a typical band situation needing to recall fader positions is just not necessary - sound check puts the faders where they need to be. Anyway, regardless of the fader position, the gain knobs aren't motorized so if they have been moved, the fader position means nothing.

Al the other consoles have recallable gains... so you can fly to a scene and everything is in place.

Motorized faders are great in large production situations where changing scenes during a show is a must and needs to happen instantly. It sounds like you are involved in that level of sound. But, that's not the scenario that we are discussing here.

The only place that I can see motorized faders could be handy in a small setting would be when using an iPad for mixing and having the faders respond when you return to the board. The presonus does not do that, however, when you use the iPad, it automatically puts the board in LOCATE mode - that will give you an led above every fader showing where you have to move the fader to get it to match the changes that have been made. Once you make the changes, you hit the LOCATE button again and everthing is back to normal.

Are you really arging that the way Presonus does it is acceptable? To go through and align 24 or 32 channels of faders.. that's takes a minute or two... and that's a minute or two that you aren't mixing. Moving faders eliminates this problem. I'll grant that a Presonus is better than an entry level analog rig.. but it's not nearly as good as the other options in it's price class.

My point is still that I wouldn't make not having moving faders on a small format board for live sound a deal-killer.

[/quote][/quote]

Why wouldn't you get a board with this feature, though, when it's the same price? Si Expression 2 and 3 are the same price as 24.4.2AI and 32.4.2AI, and have moving faders, digital snake capability, better iPad functionality, better control surface functionality, recallable preamps, more mix channels, more and better effects, user and feature level security access, etc... again FOR THE SAME PRICE. Why would anyone buy a Presonus anymore?

[Bruce Weldy]

Why would anyone buy a Presonus anymore?

Again, I wasn't trying to push the Presonus. My point was that I don't believe that moving faders should be a deal killer for 99% of the people on this board. I just don't see them being used for the average guy running his band or simple sound gigs on a 16 channel board.

There are a few of you that are doing bigger shows with multiple acts who need instant scene recall.....and that's where moving faders are invaluable. Each person has to determine their needs and choose accordingly.

It's like people who refuse to drive a two-wheel drive truck here in Texas - they just have to have 4-wheel drive.....yet, all they do is take the kids to school in it. They spend the extra money and the extra maintenance just so they have the one that looks cool.

If you need it - buy it. If you don't - don't.

I'm sure at this point that Donny and Chris have enough info to make a decision on what they want. And I don't see that they could go wrong with any of the new digital mixers out there.

[rec]

Donny, You should check out the new Allen and Heath QU-16. I borrowed one from a friend for a weekend and this is a pretty bad azz mixer.
They have released another firmware that lets you store libraries among other things. You can record with out a computer too. The price has
recently dropped to $1999. If I were to buy a 16 channel right now the Allen and Heath would get my money.
My 2 cents
Richard