TLAH for my HT Mains

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MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

TLAH for my HT Mains

#1 Post by MissileCrisis »

Hi all I just started my TLAH build and although it will be a slow one (working only weekends and probably some weekdays if I'm ambitious (working full time this summer). Attached is a pic of the beautiful 8 ft piece of pine I picked up for the baffle.
pine wood.jpg
I also have a picture of the baffle spacing that I am proposing and I hope someone can give me feedback as to if I am spacing the 5.25 inch aurasound woofers enough (I'm doing 5.75 inches center to center for a 5.2 inch driver (measured)) See below:
woofers.jpg
*note that the wood behind the woofers is just for scale and marking on and is a piece of scrap, I intend to follow the sketchup and start at the bottom of the speaker/work my way up (woofer placement).
I will be rear mounting the woofers and front mounting the (recommended) tweeters. My dad and I spent some time drilling a hole in the router that will essentially be a template for the woofer holes (tested a cutout and it is perfectly snug) and got it right on the third try. I also bought a holesaw that with a little sanding works great for the tweeter.

Wish me luck, I'm trying to convince my dad that he needs to build a pair for the family if this turns out well so I'll make sure to EQ before he gets to listen :).
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

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DJPhatman
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Location: Warren, MI
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Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#2 Post by DJPhatman »

When installed, the frames of the woofers should just touch, bringing the center-to-center points as close as possible. Do the same for the tweeters. If you can trim the frames without ruining them, do so for even closer c-2-c spacing. Looking at your woofers, just have them touch.

What I did was face the woofers down, dust cap to the woofer panel, line them up and pencil trace around the array. This mocks up the placement so I know how much room I have to work with.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#3 Post by MissileCrisis »

How can I avoid having the wood fall apart with the speakers touching? With so little structural support I have a bad feeling I may just wreck the wood trying to get the speakers as close as physically possible, especially since I plan on recessing the back of the (.75 inch) baffle using a dado saw blade. Ok so it seems that the answer to my question is "as close as physically possible". I'll try the mock up with the woofers and see what it looks like. What disadvantage would there be to spacing them out a little? I'm guessing it messes up the line array effect. Also, how can I calculate total power handling based on woofer and tweeter power handling? I'm pretty sure I won't be putting more than 20 watts total into it (for fear of loss of hearing) but I would like to hear an opinion as to what I could safely put into it and not run out of steam. Woofer rating is 20 W rms (assuming that they are talking about thermal limit) tweeter is 35 W rms. That basically means I'm limited in the LF section right (9 tweeters to 6 woofers)? My mindset is put less than 80 watts per side into them and you won't have to worry or max around 120 watts with a HP of 100 Hz. I'm not expecting them to fill a huge room so I feel like I'll have more than adequate volume.
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

bcdaffin
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: spring hill, tn

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#4 Post by bcdaffin »

Are these the aura ns525s? I'm planning on building a pair of SLAs with them, what tweeter did you choose to go with it?
-Brian Daffin

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DJPhatman
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Location: Warren, MI
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Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#5 Post by DJPhatman »

With those drivers, there should still be some strips of wood between the drivers. Be mindful of the terminals when installing the, if you are surface mounting them. If you are back mounting, use a 1/4" roundover, or lightly sand so as to not make the strips too thin.
MissileCrisis wrote: What disadvantage would there be to spacing them out a little?
Bringing them closer reduces the comb filtering between drivers.
MissileCrisis wrote: Also, how can I calculate total power handling based on woofer and tweeter power handling? I'm pretty sure I won't be putting more than 20 watts total into it (for fear of loss of hearing) but I would like to hear an opinion as to what I could safely put into it and not run out of steam. Woofer rating is 20 W rms (assuming that they are talking about thermal limit) tweeter is 35 W rms.
This depends on wiring. When you wire speakers in series, it halves the voltage to each driver. Follow the wiring diagram in the plans. The drivers will complain if you over-do it, as will your ears.
MissileCrisis wrote: Woofer rating is 20 W rms (assuming that they are talking about thermal limit) tweeter is 35 W rms. That basically means I'm limited in the LF section right (9 tweeters to 6 woofers)? My mindset is put less than 80 watts per side into them and you won't have to worry or max around 120 watts with a HP of 100 Hz. I'm not expecting them to fill a huge room so I feel like I'll have more than adequate volume.
The woofer section requires more power to produce the lower frequencies. But, with 6 drivers handling the load, it should be no problem. Follow the plans, and you will be ecstatic with the results. SLA are smooth and effortless with little or no EQ.
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#6 Post by MissileCrisis »

DJPhatman wrote:
Bringing them closer reduces the comb filtering between drivers.
I thought that was caused by having a horizontal driver plane, but it makes sense if what you say is true, (plans state to place the drivers close) that it wouldn't be a good idea to spread them out.
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#7 Post by MissileCrisis »

bcdaffin wrote:Are these the aura ns525s? I'm planning on building a pair of SLAs with them, what tweeter did you choose to go with it?
Yes those are the woofers I'm using, I bought the recommended goldwood tweeters.
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#8 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

MissileCrisis wrote:
DJPhatman wrote:
Bringing them closer reduces the comb filtering between drivers.
I thought that was caused by having a horizontal driver plane
Correct.
it wouldn't be a good idea to spread them out.
No more than is necessary to allow them to be secure and airtight.

MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#9 Post by MissileCrisis »

I knew I would get myself in trouble by speaking watts. Haha, yes the woofers are wired for 2/3 impedance and the tweeters are wired for nominally the same impedance (or will be) thus the woofer will be nominally ~6 and the tweeters ~8. Thus I'm probably looking at 20-24 volts across the entire speaker to be on the safe side. (60-100 watts into a 6 ohm load).

The verdict is in, I will be front mounting, and then looking into making a grille as I realized that it's just too hard to keep prying fingers from touching it and the depth of the woofer (2.75 inches) doesn't lend itself to rear mounting unless I recessed it ~1/3 of an inch which would also make the spacing flimsy. By front mounting I also forgo the work required to round over the holes at the expense of a slightly ugly speaker (but I care much more about sound than looks. What would you recommend as a grill material? Fabric or metal? Considering this will be in a college house, I'm leaning towards some sort of magnetic removable metal grille.
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#10 Post by MissileCrisis »

Also, I know that the common consensus is cross over no lower than 80 Hz with the TLAH but what is their usable lower limit (assuming I'd like ~ 110ish dB total output) in frequency? Would a 70 Hz crossover work or would it strain the drivers too much? I'm mainly wondering because I don't have the knowledge to simulate the driver excursion at full power to compare it to the thermal rating of the woofers and see what would be pushing the woofers too hard.
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#11 Post by MissileCrisis »

Progress photos. No one else has a 4.96 inch diameter circle jig like I do :).
20130620_211942_LLS.jpg
Not a plunge router, but using it like one = priceless.
20130620_215513_LLS.jpg
All lined up.
20130620_215522_LLS.jpg
Very round hole.
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#12 Post by MissileCrisis »

Can someone suggest a place or more specifically a place to buy/get material for a grille? I will be needing one. I'd prefer metal as I expect these to see a little bit of travel (home to home, not gigging).
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#13 Post by MissileCrisis »

Tweeter holes finished tonight, hoping that crossover, baffle staining, polarity check/wiring, and rear piece construction get done tomorrow. I'm feeling ambitious. Too bad my paycheck hasn't processed yet I was hoping to get my duratex + goodies order shipped today from speakerhardware.
Holesaw getting a workout!
Holesaw getting a workout!
20130621_213447.jpg
All done.
For the record they were clamped together and I went through both baffles in the same go (clearing out the hole saw as necessary).
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

88h88
Posts: 1603
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:20 am
Location: Coventry, UK

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#14 Post by 88h88 »

Looking good!
4xOT12s, 2xT39s@22", TTLS@18", 2xT60@18"

MissileCrisis
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:30 pm
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Re: TLAH for my HT Mains

#15 Post by MissileCrisis »

Sides and bottom (meaning the 4x8 bottom since it is a rectangular build, the "top" is open as in the plans) glued in their convenient dado slots :) Note the back is simply a spacer at the moment and is not glued (removable by means of screws + weather stripping is the plan))
Notice that this is upside down in the picture and the dado on the top is for the "bottom"
Notice that this is upside down in the picture and the dado on the top is for the "bottom"
Ran out of clamps.
Ran out of clamps.
Built
2 x TLAH
1 Titan 39 (lab 12, 15 inch)
1 Tuba 60 (lab 12, 20 inch)
SLA Center
2 x Mini MLTP subwoofers
1 x 212 TH (custom)
2 x Mini-Karlsonators
Owned, but not built
2 x Jack 12 (2512, melded)

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