Hello from me!

[VTypeV4]

Hi Ladies and gents..

I'm Matt from the Midlands in the UK and I'm happy to be here!

I've worked for many years as a live engineer for a venue called The Rigger but have also done many external things for a number of artistes and hire companies. I also play bass guitar although engineering nearly always takes over, usually as it pays better! Funk, disco and modern jazz fusion are favourites.

Recently I've started a business venture called The Art of Sound specializing in live sound. My business partner and I have built quite a potent 3-way Peavey rig but I feel like we're 'at the end' with as far as we can take it. I'm currently running a pair of 118XT subs and some HiSys 3 tops in bi-amp. Powering them is 2 x MPX1200 in bridge for the subs, 2 x Crown CE 2000 in bridge for the mids and a Crown PT3 driving the HF. We've got way too much power and need to further expand by way of building some BFM speakers..

The plan is to build some (probably 2 to start with and maybe another 2 later) Omni PA 12 or 15s although i'm still not sure which way to go with the HF. Or the subs for that Matter! Although I do have a killer design for some slightly bulky 1x18 folded horns..

Anyways, enough waffle, Hello!

[Grant Bunter]

Hi VtypeV4,
Welcome to the forum

If you're concentrating solely on live music, you can't go past the Titan series subs for bottom end. Your build choice depends on how low a response you want. T48's are high passed at a lower setting compared to T39's. These cabs are often louder and lighter than commercial offerings.
I'm assuming you meant Omni tops, not Omni's. These are a faster build, but not quite as fantastic as the DR series.

I'm not sure if you've used horn loaded cabs before, but they are different from direct radiators.
They require high passing and brick wall limiting to protect drivers in subs, so some form of DSP is best used for that.
Also, horn designs don't mix well with direct radiators due to phasing issues, so if you're thinking to just supplement what you have that may not work so well.

Anyway, there's plenty of reading to be done and you can learn heaps here from a lot of experts who are readily willing to help, so enjoy your time...

[VTypeV4]

Hi Grant, many thanks for your reply..

I did indeed mean Omni tops, I'd got mixed up with something else I'd been reading elsewhere. I had a look at the DR series but I think they're a little more than I need currently and the long throw aspect would be wasted too. Omnis will be fine for the time being.

With regards to horn loaded speakers, I do have some experience as the subs I have at the Rigger are folded horns. They're pretty massive at 3ft x 2ft x 2ft but they do thump rather well. I have them currently loaded with Precision Devices 918s although one has fried this week after 5 years of faithful and complaint free service. The system controller is the original (and best IMO) dbx DriveRack which has both limiting and HPF facilities. I've never done the maths but low-level testing without HPF shows a reasonably clean response down to about 30Hz so I set the filter to 35Hz just to be sure. As for the limiting, I can't remember but it's probably not savage enough as I have a 3600VZ Crown in bridge driving them.. Whoops!

For my Art of Sound items, I intend to go horn-loaded all the way and run a three-way system. The efficiency of horns makes them a no-brainer for this project.

The Titans look great although a lower response is desirable over SPL as the system will be expected to act as both sound re-inforcement and sound reproduction. I'm thinking 4 x 1x12" rather than two double 12s. Samller gigs will be made easier that way although I might go to 15" units if it's an option?

The info here is great, I've been a 'guest' for a while but glad I'm part of the fraternity.

[Grant Bunter]

Hi Matt,
All good

Some struggle when they get here regarding limiting etc, so it's handy when it's nothing new.

You can certainly load 15's into T48's and HP at 35Hz with 4 or more cabs. Then you can add in
some extension, so you'd probably have 30Hz anyway.
It's unusual for live sound to need less than 30Hz, and as far as recorded material goes, it's
often best to check out sub bass content in something like audacity ot see if you really need lower than 30Hz.
Subs as singles is certainly easier to handle!

Sure, you can biamp if you want to.

As far as throw, the melded piezo arrays give wide, up close dispersion, and the flat piezo array or CD horn can give you long throw. These can be in the DR's or Omnitops.

[Tom Smit]

Welcome to the fourm, Matt!

OTop12 cabs will put out a lot of clean volume. If you stack one cab on top of the other, the cabs sound even better. The same goes for the DRxxx cabs. The DR200, by the way, is not only used for PA, but someone has used it for their home theatre. http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... =2&t=17477
Any of the HF devices will be able to long throw.

Do you know for sure, what depth in frequency that you need to go?

[Bas Gooiker]

hey Matt, welcome to the forum.

I don't know what kind of extension your looking at, but all but the T39 & Tuba 24 go lower as the 185 or 186 horns loaded with 18's! Maybe you could go and visit or talk to Dave non zero, he has the Titan 48's, Tuba 36 and T60. I know its quite the drive from Newcastle, but you could write it as a bussiness expense...

[VTypeV4]

Once again, many thanks for the warm welcome guys!

I'm really excited about this project, gonna go see my business partner this afternoon and show him the ideas for expanding our system.

With regards to how low I want to go I expect 35Hz will be more than adequate so a pair (or quad!) of fifteen inch-loaded T48s sound great! I'm used to big ol' 18s but a move to multiple 15s with more bang is a change I'm willing to embrace.

Still not sure about the HF yet. I'm happy to use piezo tweeters and have used them in bass guitar cabs and stage monitors but the idea of greater control using a compression driver and bi-amping the OmniTop is a plan I'm more familiar with.

As for how far i need to throw, not entirely sure either but it does need to be greater and wider than our hisys 3 boxes.

My original plan was to go for an EAW or Turbo rig but they're just too far beyond budget. I've done a number of tours on both EAW and Turbo and have to say they're amongst the finest I've used especially in terms of 'vocal reality' and accuracy.. BFM is the way forward!

[Chris_Allen]

Take your time to make your decision as you have to use the same design within the same frequency range.

The Eminence 3015LF and Lab15 are still the best drivers for money/displacement ratio. It sounds like you are never going to run without subs, so the OmniTop is a very good choice.

This thread, http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 30&t=18654, is a great example of the newer angled design but the square is still available.

Don't underestimate what you get from the DR's, they are the best sounding top. I think you get more out of two tops per side from any design simply because it flattens response, improves low end and reduces vertical dispersion. Don't look at your overall output limit, it is better to have lots of overhead capacity and tickle your cabs than thrash them to death.

Oh, and welcome to the forum

[VTypeV4]

It's all good, had a good chat with my business partner and he's also happy to move forward with BFM designs.

We've been to collect another JBL MPX1200 this evening as it came up comparitavley cheap on ebay. I think we have enough amps to start a shop! The list is now 2 x MPX1200, 2 x CE2000, 1 x Carver PT2400, 1 x Power Tech 3, 1 x Matrix 1300 and a PV900.. Monster!

With regards to the DRs, they can wait for a rainy day when I need greater SPL and throw requirements. I'm also given to understand they're somewhat of a git to build?

I'm gonna stick to the Omnis and the Titans to begin with.

[AntonZ]

I have two pairs of nicely built OmniTop12 that I will probably let go for downscaling reasons. They are simply way too much for my current needs. Early February I'm will probably pass through Newcastle on a short ferry trip to Scotland and back. If you are interested, I can bring them along. Feel free to get in touch if that would be of interest to you. DR's sound yet better, downside is they are more cumbersome to build.

Plenty of help here though from the forum regulars with some DR's under their belt. So if you are in no hurry, have a shop to work in, have some basic tools and the mindset to follow directions to the letter and learn as you go, you can do them.

[VTypeV4]

Hi Anton, I'd love to have a look / listen however my Newcastle isn't the one you're thinking of, that one is 'up norf'. I may still however make a trip up to you and meet anyways. I'll keep you posted, many thanks.

Me and my business partner have a workshop to use. We're more familiar with making things out of metal as we mainly build vintage style race motorbikes and frames but we're quite confident that with a set of detailed plans, we'll be fine and dandy. DRs are further down the line..

[AntonZ]

Oops, sorry! I'm not from the UK, the ferry stop was the only Newcastle that I was aware of
If you fancy DR's or any other cabs besides your first build, do consider buying the full set of plans right away. Well worth it, even if you only build a couple of models.

[VTypeV4]

Oops, sorry! I'm not from the UK, the ferry stop was the only Newcastle that I was aware of
If you fancy DR's or any other cabs besides your first build, do consider buying the full set of plans right away. Well worth it, even if you only build a couple of models.

Not to worry, it's all good!

As for plans, as soon as xmas is out of the way, they're first on my list so I can get thinking and building!