Rack + Mixer/Eq setup needed ASAP

[metaverse]

Hello friends,

EDITED:
I'm a total beginner with all this so please bare with me.

Currently I have the limiters in my xti4000 set to -3db , crossovers are set and i've done a touch of output eq'ing to flatten out my speakers response charts. I have the subs on channel 1 and the tops/mids on channel 2.


A friend of mine who is in an electronic band (5 synths + kaoss pad) wants me to run PA for him for one of his gigs. They run all their gear into a mixer that they control which will then output to the xti4000.

I currently do not have a mixer nor do I have a rack mountable EQ that I can tweak on the fly.

He has warned me once or twice that I should have some type of live eq available because he is affraid that the signal may tear my speakers apart.


I'm assuming that with my current DSP settings in the xti that I should be fine as long as the master on his mixer isn't clipping , right ??

I'm also assuming that he knows nothing about crossovers and limiters which is why he might be so concerned ...



HOWEVER I do not have a Rack or a Mixer or an independent rack EQ which is really what i'm looking for. Although a combo Mixer with an EQ (more than 3band) is ideal.

What recommendations do you guys have because I really have little clue as to where to start looking or what would be best for my setup.

thanks
~ E

[jswingchun]

A band situation or DJ?

[metaverse]

Band ... however eventually it'll be used for DJ'ing as well.

He had mentioned not needing anymore than a 10 track for bands ??

[BrentEvans]

presonus studiolive 16 0.2 or 16.4.2 are all inclusive choices great for small band work. If you can't afford something at that level, look at the Yamaha mg166cx and Mg 206c.

[metaverse]

Do they come in a universal size that would fit on the top of a rack on wheels or is that a special type of rack that has a spot for the mixer on top.

I know next to nothing about compiling a quality "Rack on wheels" .


PS. That presonus is like triple my budget ... The Yamaha looks nice but doesn't have an EQ beyond high , mids and lows. Shit this is gonna be tougher than I thought

[BrentEvans]

I believe that all of the above are rack mountable. There may be a kit that must be purchased separately to do so. There are combo racks which allow a mixer to be mounted on top and amps below.

[metaverse]

hmmm ...

Any recommendations on Rack mount EQ's ?

[BrentEvans]

They are built in to the presonus, as are compressors, gates, and fx. If you go the analog route, dbx makes inexpensive units that are fairly good. Ashly and Rane are better, but by the time you spend for that, you could have had a presonus board.Even going the less expensive way, the cost is close. The presonus boards Gabe great bang for buck.

[Gregory East]

Getting into live sound for bands is big call. It doesn't stop with a mixing desk, even a nice one with all the extras.

Red pill or blue pill?

Your mates can hire a basic mixer and snake, eq unit, probably mics and connects, go without compressors, gates, fx..... Give yourself some time to figure out if you're going down that road.

[metaverse]

This is basically where i'm at right now ...


I'm a total beginner with all this so please bare with me.

Currently I have the limiters in my xti4000 set to -3db , crossovers are set and i've done a touch of output eq'ing to flatten out my speakers response charts. I have the subs on channel 1 and the tops/mids on channel 2.


A friend of mine who is in an electronic band (5 synths + kaoss pad) wants me to run PA for him for one of his gigs. They run all their gear into a mixer that they control which will then output to the xti4000.

I currently do not have a mixer nor do I have a rack mountable EQ that I can tweak on the fly.

He has warned me once or twice that I should have some type of live eq available because he is affraid that the signal may tear my speakers apart.


I'm assuming that with my current DSP settings in the xti that I should be fine as long as the master on his mixer isn't clipping , right ??

I'm also assuming that he knows nothing about crossovers and limiters which is why he might be so concerned ...

[Gregory East]

-3db on xti4000 is way too much unless you have series drivers.

You must use voltmeter to determine max gain.

[Gregory East]

Limiting is a discrete function, eq is something else. You could eq on the fly with your laptop but you would have to have total control of the system.

Hiring a eq is a better plan anyway. Far easier to tweak. Make sure it has peak indicator, you could go to town checking gains in the mixer and eq but so long as the mixer isn't overloading the eq, rough enough is good enough. There is a good link in the education section for system gain setting to maximise headroom and lower noise.

In my limited experience with dj types, they like everything louder than everything else. Your mates synth orchestra is either going to sound awesome or a big pile of noise. Him being upfront concerned about your drivers is potentially good, or bad. Good luck!

[metaverse]

-3db on xti4000 is way too much unless you have series drivers.

You must use voltmeter to determine max gain.

You lost me here ... so you're saying -3db is too much meaning that I should have set my limiters to -6db? Or off?

And when you say series drivers do you mean the drivers are hooked up in a series daisy chained ?? Because they are daisy chained. 2tops on one channel and 2 subs on the other.

[Gregory East]

-3db is half power if you want to think in terms of power for a minute.

The clipped peak voltage will be higher than the spec of the amp so you have to do the sinewave in passband with voltmeter and reduce in 3db steps, kinda crude but best you can do. Search setting limiter. You might wind up -6dB or even less.

If you had series wired drivers you would be looking for every last volt from most amps, check out yours, it might be preferable to run at 0dB limit with series.

Daisy chaining is cabs connected parallel wiring.

[Grant Bunter]

Hang about...
You're saying your mate's techno synth band puts everything into a mixer.
What they want is your amp, subs, and tops.
But they are worried about shredding your drivers because of lack of EQ?
The concern is great.
Unless everything is extreme and unchecked, EQ as a generalisation, won't destroy your gear.
All EQ (as in rack mount, on the fly type) will do is make the night sound better, or if used incorrectly, worse. It may be used on the fly to control feedback too. If you bought a unit, (And there are heaps of second hand average or above types around I'm sure) just make sure that it has input and output levels, and that it goes inbetween mixer output and amplifier. Those input and output levels can never be allowed to clip.
You've already worked out how to set it up for yourself. To add your amp and cabs after a mixer is not terribly different, you just need to set the mixer up so that, if any given channel is pushed up on the fader, it doesn't go to clip (ie adjust the gain control) and overall, if the master faders are pushed up, or are pushed up to full, they don't clip either.

Then run your test tone through the mixer to set your gain, limiters, and EQ on the amp (again!) and you should be right for the night...

You also need to say that if anyone does adjust the mixer after you have set it up like above, that if anyone else adjusts it further after that, and that leads to your equipment being damaged, they pay for repair...

Get there early, or better yet have a practice run with your mates sometime before the gig.
You can always say to them up front, you'll give it a try, and if they're not happy or you're not happy, that you will pull out....