Listening in the band

[Harley]

I am currently playing in a band where the drummer ( who lead sings in 50% of the songs ) has admitted to me that he does not listen to bass at all because of his lead singing duties. When I pressed him about listening to the bass when he's not lead singing , again "No I don't" - I guess because he does BVs in some of those songs.

His drumming changes tempo quite often, and sometimes even gets real sloppy.

When I tackled him about the importance of us listening to each other so as to provide a good groove with the relevant tightness, he just fobs me off with "I am so busy doing other shit, that if there's any 'locking in' to do, you'll just have to lock in with me!".

I give him the 'bassman's glare' when he well and truly stuffs up the tempo, he adjusts somewhat but then within 24bars down the track, I can tell he's not listening and speeding up again.

It's his band and he gets all the gigs for us. He's also a good singer. The 'lock in' problem though is getting worse as time goes by. The problem has also been noticed by our sound guy ( another bass player ) and a fill in bassman I had a recent gig for me.

The question is HTF do you lock into changing tempos and sloppy playing? Am I unrealistic expecting him to at least listen to the bass when he's got "all that other stuff going on?"

IMO rhythm, tempo, tightness and good groove should be the prime objective of the bass/drumm combo...am I right?

[Radian]

Bolt a battery powered butt-kicker to his stool and feed it a metronome signal. Give him a little dial switch mounted underneath his seat that he can turn the power on and adjust the metronome tempo on-the-fly. It's cheating, but it'll keep him on-beat discretely.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Am I unrealistic expecting him to at least listen to the bass when he's got "all that other stuff going on?"

IMO rhythm, tempo, tightness and good groove whould be the prime objective of the bass/drumm combo...am I right?

My drummer and I have been together since 1983. If he had your drummer's attitude we would not have made it to 1984. The rhythm section is a partnership.
I doubt that you do it for the money. If it isn't fun it's time to move on.

[doncolga]

Am I unrealistic expecting him to at least listen to the bass when he's got "all that other stuff going on?"

IMO rhythm, tempo, tightness and good groove whould be the prime objective of the bass/drumm combo...am I right?

My drummer and I have been together since 1983. If he had your drummer's attitude we would not have made it to 1984. The rhythm section is a partnership.
I doubt that you do it for the money. If it isn't fun it's time to move on.

Wow...that's awesome. If you've got drums and bass, IMO that's 75-80% of it. That's a tough one Harley, and part of the reason I've elected to play solo/duo. It's very frustrating to me of those components are not together.

[Gregory East]

I play in jazz orchestra with drummer a bit like that. Last gig he missed a big fill getting all carried away, I waited for him to finish it but the band carried on in time. Guess who looked like the asshole

He has a mean style when he's not singing. It's really groovy swing jazz but his hands are all over the place, like a vocalist bends time and catches up. I have the darndest time hitting my 4 to a bar sometimes. The guy just doesn't hit 2's and 4's in regulation, god forbid I wander with it. I have to be the human metronome.

[Harley]

I doubt that you do it for the money. If it isn't fun it's time to move on.

True. I have invested a lot of time ( and money ) into this group in order to get some progression. We are actually a really good band but we can do much much better.

I've sorted the sound by us having a full time sound-man and using BFM spaekers

I've sorted the singer with her mic ( now uses my SM58 )and I'm getting some decent compressors.

I've sorted the keyboards, we've set his Yamaha patches and on Monday set his Roland patches.

Now I have the drummer in my sights - the hardest problem comes last.

But yes - I may have to move on if I can't fix it.

Bolt a battery powered butt-kicker to his stool and feed it a metronome signal..

No chance - he won't even spend more than $NZ 25 ( $US 20 ) on a good quality signal lead which would cost at most $NZ 55 - $65, let alone buy what you suggest. He bought us an el-cheapo 2nd hand compressor recently that would only do 2 vocals ( we have 4 ) and the quality was so bad I have refused to use it.

[wounded horse]

I doubt that you do it for the money. If it isn't fun it's time to move on.

True. I have invested a lot of time ( and money ) into this group in order to get some progression. We are actually a really good band but we can do much much better.

I've sorted the sound by us having a full time sound-man and using BFM spaekers

I've sorted the singer with her mic ( now uses my SM58 )and I'm getting some decent compressors.

I've sorted the keyboards, we've set his Yamaha patches and on Monday set his Roland patches.

Now I have the drummer in my sights - the hardest problem comes last.

But yes - I may have to move on if I can't fix it.

Bolt a battery powered butt-kicker to his stool and feed it a metronome signal..

No chance - he won't even spend more than $NZ 25 ( $US 20 ) on a good quality signal lead which would cost at most $NZ 55 - $65, let alone buy what you suggest. He bought us an el-cheapo 2nd hand compressor recently that would only do 2 vocals ( we have 4 ) and the quality was so bad I have refused to use it.

Jeez, this could have been written about me and our drummer. I put these issues to him weeks ago and he went off like a firework. I wanted to get across to him SIMPLE AND TIGHT. Forgetabout all those awful 70s drum breaks WHEN YOU DON'T GET BACK IN ON TIME. STOP SPEEDING UP. He keeps dropping sticks. He can't do 2/4 time. He's gone backwards. He won't practice and craziest of all, he has a Roland E Kit, ideal for practice. The drums issue is holding the band back. But it's a tough one to call someone on it and tell them they're not good enough although he was a whole lot better. I'm almost out of there with it. I don't look forward to rehearsals or gigs now. I have a friend who's waiting to do something with me and he's on a different planet for groove and timimg and taste. It's going to break the band up though. Very frustrating.

[chenry78]

Ok, Im a drummer and after reading this post im thinking, "am I that guy"? I sure hope not!!!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Ok, Im a drummer and after reading this post im thinking, "am I that guy"? I sure hope not!!!

Are you and your bass player musically joined at the hip? If not you may be one of those guys. Or he may be.

[cheapbasslovin]

I have to confess that when I started singing (which I have mostly quit doing), I had a helluva time keeping time unless the vocals jived right up with the rhythm. I feel his pain a little. Not so much that he should get a pass when he says he can't try to give you a listen, but a little.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I have to confess that when I started singing (which I have mostly quit doing), I had a helluva time keeping time unless the vocals jived right up with the rhythm.

Hey, Ringo can do it!

OK, bad example. How about Don Henley? Levon Helm? Steven Tyler?

Yes, when he went by his given name of Stevie Tallarico he was a very good drummer, and had no problem singing and playing. But it interfered with doing pirouettes, so he dropped the drums along with his real name.

[Chris Betancourt]

I did it for many years and took years to almost master the timing and playing but still wasnt satisfied. If he's a good singer and knows the songs by heart there would be no reason to be sloppy. Maybe he needs more drumming lessons. Talk to him in a positive way, compliment him on his voice and for him to be an overall musician to practice on drumming sit down with him talk to him. One thing you could do too is to arrange a practice, play a song with him and the whole band Record with him singing the song and then the same song without vocals and play back so he could see the difference. He will be shocked.

[wallywally]

Similar problem here. Although my drummer does listen to the bass...he just isn't good enough to really lock in. I have learned to work around it. I know his abilities and where I'm going to have to follow his errors. Sometimes you gotta play it wrong to make it right. Free improvisation is the best way to learn every band members abilities, style and taste.

Try listening to his vocals to give you an indication of when and why he is drifting (timing and emotion throw me off). Also a recording of the problem can be helpful in pointing it out. If he is unwilling to even attempt to remedy the situation than it may be time to move on.

BTW I do sing alot and my bass playing does suffer, but I am aware of my shortcomings and always try to correct them. I frequently record and critique my performance.

[cheapbasslovin]

BTW I do sing alot and my bass playing does suffer, but I am aware of my shortcomings and always try to correct them. I frequently record and critique my performance.

If I'm reading the OP right, this sounds like the biggest problem.

[jswingchun]

BTW I do sing alot and my bass playing does suffer, but I am aware of my shortcomings and always try to correct them. I frequently record and critique my performance.

If I'm reading the OP right, this sounds like the biggest problem.

That and not really caring.