Hey from Denmark!

[Tungt]

Hey audio-geeks

I'm a young man from Denmark, and I have a burning wish of someday having my own PA-system for both home and outdoor-parties and the knowledge to call myself an audio-geek! I'm new in the game, brand new, and my technical knowledge is poor compared to maybe 99% of the users on this forum - but I'll give it a shot!

I've already bought the Tuba 24 plan, and I'm very excited about getting started! But before I'll throw myself into this DIY-project, my first, I got a few questions.

Q.1
I already own a set of full-range speakers, that a neighbor gave me as I turned 15 or so (I'm 17 now), but the bass is poor after 25 years of service! I run these speakers with an amplifier including both volume-control, bass/treble controls, balance and so on - I want to keep my speakers and use them as tops until I build some new tops, they are very loud and pretty clear so IMO I think they'll do! But my question is then, how do I control the volume on both the new Tuba 24 sub, which will need an amp for itself, and my old-system? The easiest and cheapest way.

Q.2
Crossover? What will I need? I've been reading a lot about it, but I can't figure out what solution is best for my single subwoofer!

Q.3
Phase? If the phase is wrong, what to do, or more importantly how to avoid it? It would be lovely if my subwoofer would play with my old system without any problems, and this problem is something I never really have thought about?

Q.4
Equalizing - Is it necessary? Because it sounds expensive!

To sum it up: Building a sub, and I want it to play with a set of full-range speakers.

Thanks in advance (and sorry if my English is poor)!

[Frederic Gelinas]

You definately need a crossover of some sort to split the frequencies Hi/Low. Buy a used one to keep within the budget. Then, if your amp is a Pro amp, you could run both tops of one channel and the sub from the other channel. You will then be able to control the volume for each one separately. It may work without EQ, but again, a used unit shouldn't break the bank and will give you a much better sound. 15 band would be enough. As for the phase question, it shows that you still have to read about it! Just don't bother with that for now: go out and play this kit as loud as you can!

[Tungt]

Thank you! The idea with using one channel for sub and the other for my full range is good, except I would really like to use my amplifier with integrated bass/treble control to turn the bass down, because one of the bass-drivers starts to make noise when played at high volume.

Is it possible to get equalizer and crossover as one?

[Bruce Weldy]

I think the first question would be:

Does your home stereo amp (I'm assuming that's what it is from your description) have a sub out? Or a mono line out?

If so, you can use that to get the signal to the subwoofer chain.

Next question is:

What's your budget? You can do this real cheap or you can make it sound better with more money.

From your description of your mains, it sounds like throwing a whole bunch of cash into crossovers, etc is a waste if you intend to stick with those boxes. If that is the case, you could just use a cheap 15 band EQ to roll off all the highs going to the sub, roll off the lows on the mains through your current stereo amp and get by until you are able to address the whole picture.

[Frederic Gelinas]

Once correctly hi-passed, your top won't distort because they won't try to reproduce low frequencies. Your sub will take care of the low end, cleaning the sound for the tops and allowing them to play louder.

You can get eq and crossover in one digital unit (google Driverack or DCX2496 and the like), but that would cost much more than separate used analog units.

[Tungt]

My amp has a sub out - but would it not amplify the signal twice, and because of that also amplify the noise twice?
I think I'll go with the 15 band EQ, thank you

And thank you for the answers!

My budget is pretty low, so I would prefer a cheap solution.

EDIT: I found this http://www.thomann.de/dk/behringer_fbq1 ... phiceq.htm - a 15 band eq "with adjustable crossover frequency, Additional low-cut filter removes unwanted frequencies" would it work as both eq and crossover?

[Frederic Gelinas]

You can't use the sub output on your "amplifier" (which is probably more a home theater receiver than a power amp) to feed itself. If you want to use the sub out, you will have to buy a real amp for your sub.

The Behringer eq would be a start. When it'll break, you could then buy something better. As using it as a crossover, maybe it'll do the job, I don't know. I wouldn't recommend it.

[Tungt]

So what you're saying is that my sub out is just a signal, that doesn't get amplified by my stereo amp - that would be perfect! Because then I could just put the signal through my stereo amp and to my new sub amp (which will be a 2 channel amp for another sub later on).

But okay, I'll go with the Behringer EQ, but if I'll need something else to cut of unwanted freq. then what would you suggest? Cheap and working!

[mikeratliff]

Hi Tungt, on a side note having nothing what so ever to do with your post....I am currently hooked on Volbeat....thank you Denmark!

[bassmonster]

To sum it up: Building a sub, and I want it to play with a set of full-range speakers.

First off, I am also a teenager and like loud music too. Do you like insane bass?

1. If you're happy with your tops, then you might want to get some EQ and a crossover to eliminate the low frequencies going to the tops. If you have subs, then you do not need to play the low frequencies through the tops. This will help with distortion as well. I recommend a DCX2496 (you will already need a DSP unit for the tubas) because it has a crossover, limiter, and EQ. If you like your tops now, that's great, but I suspect you will want some better tops later and I would go with the omnitop 12, it pairs well with the tuba 24/30. Are you only making one tuba 24? It might have hard time keeping up with big loud tops(depends on how good they are), so you might either want it dual loaded or build more of them. Tubas are better in herds. If you just love insane bass or play dubstep/ bass heavy music, you might consider a tuba 30 or tuba 60. They go lower.

2. DCX2496. Includes EQ, crossover, limiter. Or, if you're short on cash, the BBE DS24. You can find it probably >$150 used. It includes pretty much what the DCX does, just cheaper, and it's pink!

3. Not as knowledgeable about phase and that stuff so I'll keep my mouth shut.

4. DCX2496 has limited EQ, but if you want a lot of options you might want to look into the Behringer DEQ2496. It has a lot of EQ options, 31 band graphic, 10 parametric, three dynamic per channel.

What is your budget?

[Tungt]

Hi Tungt, on a side note having nothing what so ever to do with your post....I am currently hooked on Volbeat....thank you Denmark!

Haha Volbeat is a cool band - especially live, very powerful!

To sum it up: Building a sub, and I want it to play with a set of full-range speakers.

First off, I am also a teenager and like loud music too. Do you like insane bass?

1. If you're happy with your tops, then you might want to get some EQ and a crossover to eliminate the low frequencies going to the tops. If you have subs, then you do not need to play the low frequencies through the tops. This will help with distortion as well. I recommend a DCX2496 (you will already need a DSP unit for the tubas) because it has a crossover, limiter, and EQ. If you like your tops now, that's great, but I suspect you will want some better tops later and I would go with the omnitop 12, it pairs well with the tuba 24/30. Are you only making one tuba 24? It might have hard time keeping up with big loud tops(depends on how good they are), so you might either want it dual loaded or build more of them. Tubas are better in herds. If you just love insane bass or play dubstep/ bass heavy music, you might consider a tuba 30 or tuba 60. They go lower.

2. DCX2496. Includes EQ, crossover, limiter. Or, if you're short on cash, the BBE DS24. You can find it probably >$150 used. It includes pretty much what the DCX does, just cheaper, and it's pink!

3. Not as knowledgeable about phase and that stuff so I'll keep my mouth shut.

4. DCX2496 has limited EQ, but if you want a lot of options you might want to look into the Behringer DEQ2496. It has a lot of EQ options, 31 band graphic, 10 parametric, three dynamic per channel.

What is your budget?

Hey - thanks for your contribution to this thread! I'm about to build 2x24, and I'll use a Crown XLS1000 to power them! Crossover, limiter and the fact that Crown is easier than Behringer to sell second-hand are included. I'll then have to get a Equalizer and then I'm good to go. But overhere, in Denmark, the prices are crazy. Ex. the XLS1000 costs around 500 dollars here. So well my budget is very low compared to you I guess.

[bassmonster]

I'll use a Crown XLS1000 to power them! the XLS1000 costs around 500 dollars here. So well my budget is very low compared to you I guess.

No my budget is low too, but there are other reliable amps for a good price. The Crown is a good amp. The Behringer EP2000 is very reliable as well, and powerful and puts out 750w at 4ohms. That will power your rig very nicely, and it's fairly cheap but I don't know what it costs in Denmark, it costs $270 on amazon in the U.S.

[Tungt]

I'll use a Crown XLS1000 to power them! the XLS1000 costs around 500 dollars here. So well my budget is very low compared to you I guess.

No my budget is low too, but there are other reliable amps for a good price. The Crown is a good amp. The Behringer EP2000 is very reliable as well, and powerful and puts out 750w at 4ohms. That will power your rig very nicely, and it's fairly cheap but I don't know what it costs in Denmark, it costs $270 on amazon in the U.S.

It costs around 320 dollars in Denmark, but by the info i get here: http://www.thomann.de/dk/behringer_ep2000_europower.htm it only puts out 2x500 w at 4 ohms, and in this case the speakers will be 6 ohms.

[DJPhatman]

Tungt, IMO you should start with a Crown XTi amp. Cost is only a little more than your XLS1000, but you get Digital Signal Processing, or DSP, built in the amp. This means you can run your subs on one channel, and your tops on the other, all in mono. The crossover, limiter and EQ are all there, and easily controlled via USB.

BTW, since no one asked, what kind of music do you intend to play? I am not so sure that the T24 is right for you. A lot of people want "small" subs, when they actually need a different model, or lots of small subs.

[Gregory East]

It might have been the day before yesterday there was a thread concluded about XLS series and what they are good for. Answer: their dsp is actually quite limited and doesn't cover the essentials for driving horn subs. You need a processor or an XTi or equivalent.