Newbie from Chicago area, and question(s) re jack

[johnp352]

hi, got here from TB, it's a true relief to hear some real discussion about sound reproduction.. Putting together a live monitoring rig for my electro acoustic tenor bass, a hollow body 30" scale bass/baritone that's tuned from A (on a conventional bass, eg 55 hz) to F , 5 strings, in 4ths..I also play an analog mono synth and a Hugh Tracey Karimba. Wondering about the difference between the J 10 and j12 in my situation, as I am playing in a range that's a little deeper than a cello, but "missing" the bottom 5 notes of a conventional e bass..volume/setup is with a percussionist/drummer, low volume..sometimes an added reed player, usually good mains, this rig is more for hearing what I am doing without having to use IEMs, as well as rehearsing , art gallery gigs, any place the percussion won't be miked.. One j 10? two of them? do i need the extra bajo of a j 12?

thanks, looking fwd to participating here.

[wallywally]

I'd build 1 J10 that should be more than enough. If it's not you simply build 1 more. Also for monitoring I'd put on a kickback foot so it points at you. http://www.speakerhardware.com/folding_ ... 570900.php

[johnp352]

thanks..from all the reading I have been doing..that does seems like enough. AFA power..Bill said somewhere that if 200 watts isn't enough, you need more cabinets..ie more dispersion..rather than more watts. Have any of the builders here been able to use an inexpensive plate amp mounted inside a J10, or does that interfere with the interior volume of the cab too much? and..though i simply wanted to introduce myself here, should I move this whole thing over to the Jack section?

[wallywally]

The better option is to build an "airhead" cabinet and use a rackmount head.

[Mikey]

inexpensive plate amp mounted inside a J10

They're inexpensive for a reason. Plus, you'd still need a preamp, eq, and a DI. You'd be much better off with a bass head. You can pull the guts from any bass head or combo and put it in a J10 airhead, if you want a one piece carry. Otherwise, just use a separate bass head.

If you don't already have a bass head and you're on a tight budget, I'll give the same advice I've been giving for decades; find a good deal on an old, used Peavey. It's hard to go wrong with them.

Sounds like a cool bass. Any pics? We always love pics.

[johnp352]

thanks, I will look in to the airhead, though..for pre amps in a live situation, I either use a Raven Labs PMB or a Seymour Duncan/DTAR prototype pocket blender (I am an endorser and have been beta testing it)..my tenor bass uses piezo and mag pickups, i usually run it in dual mono. In a lot of situations, I take along just the pre's, no amp at all, and go straight FOH/foldback, the instrument basically being an amplified acoustic. therefore I like to have them not mounted in anything..especially for fly in dates. But there are times as well when it would be great to have my own "personal" monitor. I spent some time playing through Meyers wedges, and that spoiled me.

I realize the plate amp idea is a cheapster way out..and would probably look into one of the new Crown lightweights. tell me more about the airhead though..could I have a jack 10 with that rack space, and put the crown inside it?

[johnp352]

Here's a small pic of the tenor bass..built by master american luthier Rick Turner. It's based on his Renaissance model, a thin hollow body instrument, walnut sides/back, flamed maple top. I had it made because though I am primarily a "bass player" (since 1926 or so it feels some days) I have been playing fender VI's and dano/Jerry Jones baris and 6 's since ..well almost as long. I loved the range of these, but never could use proper right hand bass technique because of the string spacing. So.. this has a proper string spacing, albeit a little narrower to facilitate open voiced chords. The pu system is dual mono, with his DTAR pre for the piezo bridge, and a custom wound mag pu in the neck pos. I string it with flats from d'addario, .080 to .020, or larger depending on how much I am playing (...). With those strings I am able to use flats all the way to the "f" a flatwound .020. as well as use the guitar version and/or bass version of the strings, which makes things a lot easier. (good luck finding a .020 flatwound bass string..)

I can't say enough good things about this instrument. I can play Bach, Freddie Green chords, "bass", bossa funk and almost anything in between. The range goes a little lower than a cello, actually the same as a bassoon, and high enough to let me cleanly articulate chords. It sounds..acoustic, I use no effects..which is why I am here..trying to find a speaker that will replicate this instrument.

[Mikey]

SWEET instrument!

John, have you considered a DR250? It's considerably larger than a J10, but general concensus is that it's the best sounding of all of Bill's designs. Since your instrument doesn't require extreme extension, you shouldn't need a sub with it.

[Tom Smit]

I am going another route than what the rest are suggesting if you strictly need only foldback. My suggestion is a Wedgehorn10.

BTW, welcome to the forum!

[johnp352]

thanks Tom and Mikey, I really appreciate any insight here. I was thinking about the wedgehorn 10 as well Tom..it seems a bit larger/heavier than the j10? maybe a j 10 and a wedgehorn? bill frisell has a nice setup where he uses a monitor and an amp in a similar fashion.

[Mikey]

maybe a j 10 and a wedgehorn?

Nope. You don't mix horns.



See the massive superiority in sensitivity of the DR250 from 80-300 hz? That's where the heart of your instrument's frequency response is. That equates to a lot less power needed to achieve a given spl, and much more headroom. It would take two J10s or WH10s to equal that, but they still wouldn't sound as good as a DR250. The Double Reverse (DR) design filters-out distortion, providing cleaner, more articulate sound.

Have you tried your bass through a good tube amp? If you shop / hunt diligently, you can sometimes find old Plush / Earth tube bass amps on the cheap (under $500). They're HAND-WIRED Fender Bassman clones! One of those would pair nicely with a DR250.

[johnp352]

thanks Mikey..that said something. Having said that though (...), I just committed to 2 used JT 10's with 2510's...lightweight, portable and pretty much what i am looking for as monitors/acoustic reinforcement. AFA tube amps..I had and used a Plush with a 2x12 for highs with a big Ashdown for the lows..ancient history though, I don't play music like that anymore. That circuit was a Showman clone, to a "T"...or is that "S"? Blue Sparkle too. Point to point wiring from consciousness altered "craftsmen" in New Yawk New Yawk, circa 1972.

anyway, using one or 2 JT 10's..is a Crown xls 1000, the new one @7 lbs..overkill?

[Mikey]

I just committed to 2 used JT 10's with 2510's.

I'm not familiar with "JT 10" ... Google didn't help.

using one or 2 JT 10's..is a Crown xls 1000, the new one @7 lbs..overkill?

Do you intend to bridge the amp? Hopefully not. IF not, then no, definately not overkill. However, I'd recommend an XTi 1000 instead, for <$100 more. Since the second generation XTi came out, retailers are clearing out the originals. It weighs about twice as much as the XLS Drivecore 1000, but it's under 20 pounds, which I consider very reasonable. The XTi has much better DSP, some of which you won't use for this application, but they'll be there if you should need them for other applications at some time. The kicker, IMO, is that the Drivecore delivers 215 wpc @ 8 ohms, but the XTI gives 275 wpc @ 8 ohms ... more headroom. I'm assuming you'll be running one cab on each side of the amp.

[johnp352]

Jt 10= jack 10..at least i thought so ;(

Good point re the the Crown, thanks.

[Mikey]

Worse case scenario ... if you're not happy with the J10s you should be able to sell them for whatever you payed for them used. On the up-side, I hope you love them!

MF has the XTi 1000 for $399, but I'm sure you can find one for less if you shop around for the clearance deals.