ideas for PA subwoofer amps

[ILYA]

SPECIFICS : building a large PA for DJ and EDM, using conventional 15" front-firing mains (total of 16 drivers), biamped together with 2" compression horns, powered by solid old-school amps and quality DSP's... the bottom end is covered by 8 folded horn subwoofers, possibly more later...

GOAL: looking for several AMPLIFIERS for subwoofer use that put out 1200-1400 watts rms at 8 ohms - either per channel, or bridged - and reasonably priced... Have been online for several days, researching the currently available models - looks like everyone is switching to the lightweight Class D amps... so my first question is regarding "traditional turrodial" vs "switch-mode" power supplies for subwoofer duty - any opinions?

So far, I've had a few options I've been kicking around... still considering MA5050 and EP4000 as cheap possibilities, but I would hate to purchase cheap amps with chinese parts, for not much less $ than their better-known competitors...

IPR6000 comes out in March, I can wait till then, will be $650 - if it's worth it, they are too new to know... there's always CS4080hz, but it's pushing expensive... XTi2000 is down to $450, but I heard they don't measure well at low frequencies... XLS2000 is about the same price, but how does it compare to XTi and what is different ??? is IPR really better than XTi ???

there are some good deals on Crown XS500 and Crest CC5500 or CC1800 - any opinions about XS or CC series??? Also, someone just suggested Carvin DCM 1504L - being an A/B class it's starting to look kinda good...

any other ideas, comments, suggestions, words of advice? any specific brand or models? should I find some solid used "A/B" amps (weight is not an issue), or should I go for the new "H" or "D" class technologies? I need something that performs well at low frequencies specifically... thanks in advance!

[AntonZ]

Cannot give specifics on amps, as I have no experience with large setups like yours, but one additional question: is this a fixed install, or something that's going to be moved a lot?

For fixed install I'd get "old iron", as long as plenty power is always available. With the new amps that everyone wants, very good deals can be found on the heavy tranformer loaded amps.

For moving around, not only the weight saving of the newer switch mode amps is nice. Additional bonus is they are a lot more efficient, i.e. you are drawing less power for the same amount of noise. Less breakers to trip.



Crown XLS and Xti amps have integrated DSP. If you don't use it, you are still paying for it. The XLS series are newer, lighter, but less features in the DSP part. Peavey IPR are stupid light, hard to believe there is anything in the case at all.

[ILYA]

For moving around, not only the weight saving of the newer switch mode amps is nice. Additional bonus is they are a lot more efficient, i.e. you are drawing less power for the same amount of noise. Less breakers to trip.

could anyone else verify this as accurate? I've been under the impression that newer switch-mode "D" amps actually are more dependant on stable and clean power being supplied to them, which is why I've been leaning towards the proven good ol' "A/B" class amps, that can store current in their big heavy transformers... Are they better or worse as far as their line power demands? I often pull power from old warehouses and generators, and occasionally in a nice club, so need to be prepared for all sorts of situations... Yes, the system is mobile, but weight is not an issue, it's more about quality and reliability...

[ewetho]

My Ashley FE500 weighs in at about 75 pounds and is rated at 250 Watts/channel at 8 Ohms but 800 Watts @ 8 Ohms in Bridged Mono.

But is input stable through a brown out to 20 Volts. Sound is very sweet. Powered a set of 4 titans well but 4 of these in the amp rack required Hercules and even he might get a hernia.

The Xti Crowns are just behind them in sound but a WHOLE lot more power to be had and all 3 of the ones we use are lighter than one Ashley. Oh and one house circuit for the whole rack not 2 amps per circuit.

The Crowns (2 4000s and a 1000) on the TripLite LCR2400. It will give you 120V Stable @ 20A with voltage swings into 80s. TripLite said bring it on and Crown said please do and recommended it due to bad power will shut them down.

[ILYA]

XTi or XLS or XS or CC or PLX or RMX or IPR or CS or DCM ???

[Ron K]

XTi or XLS or XS or CC or PLX or RMX or IPR or CS or DCM ???

Here's what I've had the pleasure of owning/begging/borrowing or stealing and pushing (that means running them at or above clip)subs with.

Crown-XTI Bought to install in Turn Key Rig Starts to chug after a few minutes and they dont sound very nice
Crown-Power Base 1 and 2 Bought many moons ago Still sound OK when pushed and get hot but stay running Dont like low ohms
Crown-MA2400 " The energizer bunny They keep on going sound good get hot and still keep on going They could care
less how low the load goes.
Crown-MA3600 " "
Crown-PowerTech1 Belongs to my Bro Same as the Power bases
QSC-RMX 2450 Friends Rig Sound OK when pushed get hot but will thermal if you keep at it
QSC-PLX2502 " Better then the RMX and they dont chug or thermal
QSC-MX1500 Left Over from the 80s recently sold OK but sound bad when clipped
QSC-USA850 Old DJ amp Boat anchor or Audiophile paperweight
Peavey-CS800 I have several and use them for monitors Dont like low ohms but sound good run hard. Will shut down if you push too hard
Peavey-IPR1600 Friends DJ amp Best of the switchers I've heard. Sound good keep going but in low ohms they thermal.
Crest-9001 My old sub amp went to church install Run forever hot but start to sound crappy after awhile
Lab Grupen Dont know exact model (used in friends A rig on a Bret Michael's show) Pushed the livin crap out of them and showed no signs of strain at all.
Behringer EP2500 Friends rig Dont like low ohms for long and dont sound very good at low ohms either. Decent on subs but they
thermal when pushed very hard.

I'd say if you are hell bent on lightweight switchers get the IPR but try for 1.5 to twice the rated power if you dont want to strain the amp.
With the XTIs etc. go double the power rating but personally I just didn't care for them on subs.The Peavey is better.

If you dont mind the weight the Crown MA2400 is still a good bargain. Not too too heavy but plays tough! 3600s even more so but they are 60lbs!

Haven't played with the other Crests you mentioned or the QSC GX series nor the Crown xls/drivecore/xs etc.Haven't tried the newer CS series from Peavey either.

I've heard I-techs but never ran them in a rig.They impressed me as well. Strong and tight!

[UROK]

So Lab Gruppen or ITechHD basically?

[guitardude57]

Lab Gruppen and Camco, and Powersoft are the stuff.........better have way deep pockets.
But you get what you pay for. Flawless Audio power.

[ewetho]

Crown-XTI Bought to install in Turn Key Rig Starts to chug after a few minutes and they dont sound very nice

With the XTIs etc. go double the power rating but personally I just didn't care for them on subs.The Peavey is better.

Wow we push 4 T48s hard on 1 - XTI4000 and have been VERY pleased. But then again maybe the Double rule is in effect here still.

[Hallwalk3r]

MC2 Audio E90 on Sub duty are my weapon of choice and very happy! http://www.mc2-audio.co.uk/e90/.