Turntable Isolation Solved

[nastyford77]

So a little background. I'm a mobile/club dj. I rotate weekends at a local club, as well as do mobile. Anyway I use Serato with turntables, and ever since I started using the Titan 48, I have had a lot of problems with the tracking dropping out on a hard deep bass line. It was so bad, the music would slow way down, so I had to switch between the turntables and internal mode to keep the music going. I had to do something. I did some research and found some people hade used ashtrays and wrapped rubber bands around them to create isolators for the feet of the turntables. I experimented with this, it worked ok, but I still needed more. More research. Found that I needed more mass to help absorb the vibration. So I picked up some heavy square ashtrays (about 1.5 lbs each) then wrapped some rubber bands across the tops, forming several X's across the top, until it would support the weight of the feet. I tried these, and they worked great, except everytime I touched the record, the table would continue to oscillate uncontrollably. I fixed this by adding some memory foam in the cavity formed between the inside of the ashtray and the rubber bands, forming a "shock absorber". This works very well, now I can pump the hard basslines, without fear of the music dieing out. Pics to come

[Monomer]

freefloats, when used properly - work quite well.

Most people over inflate them. You have to inflate, set the deck on and deflate until the center pad touches the deck.



some foam between a couple of sheet of plywood is also popular.

[bzb]

Nice fix, but one of the many reasons I've ditched Serato (and DVS) altogether.

[Nate Rouslin]

I run Serato with 1200s and have played at clubs where the dj booth was on top of the bassbins and never had a problem. Alot has to do with what type of needle,cartridge setup you are using and how the tone arm is calibrated. Also try moving the T48 away from you dj setup.

[LEVLHED]

coulda swore I replied to this earlier today.....

I've seen people use racket balls to isolate.

Myself I use some high end Isonoe isolation feet at home fore my tricked-out audiophile 1200, but they were a little on the extravagant side...
I wouldn't recommend them for DJ work unless you were *really* splurging.

[Tom Smit]

Alot has to do with what type of needle,cartridge setup you are using and how the tone arm is calibrated. Also try moving the T48 away from you dj setup.

This kind of threw up a red flag for me. The way this comment appears to me is that there is some extra weight to keep the needle in the groove which, from what I was told thirty years ago, would wear out the record quickly. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

[LEVLHED]

it does wear it out more quickly, but that's the cost of using turntables in this way. It's just generally accepted that you need a higher tracking force in a live DJ application.

[Tom Smit]

Wow. I'd rather isolate as much as I can.
Are the LPs easily replaceable/readily available?

[djslik]

Seriously if you have something like Shure M447-G needles and you reverse the tonearm weight you should not skip at all. Battle style setup used for ages with most scratch DJ's and you rarely if ever skip. Yes you'll get record wear but you're using Serato right, so buy new control records when they warp or flip the record. I have a set of spare Serato records every time I gig they are not that expensive. Have not really had any problems with Turntables and live gigs even with the subwoofer sitting right underneath the tables at some clubs.

[nastyford77]

The dj booth at the club is really shoddy. I have already moved the sub as far as I can get it, but the booth shakes so bad I can't even use the mouse, cause its all over the screen. I agree, its a bandaid fix for lower quality needles, but it works great.

[Nate Rouslin]

Alot has to do with what type of needle,cartridge setup you are using and how the tone arm is calibrated. Also try moving the T48 away from you dj setup.

This kind of threw up a red flag for me. The way this comment appears to me is that there is some extra weight to keep the needle in the groove which, from what I was told thirty years ago, would wear out the record quickly. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

Serato records are pressed alot thicker then standard records. I run the Ortofon Digitrack needles and DJ 4 nights a week and I replace my records about every 4-6 months. The run about $7 each. The new Serato/ortofon needles have addressed the skipping issue wiht needles and Serato. The 3 main factors in getting the needles to sit right on the record is of course the tonearm wight set to the right weight but also make sure that when the needle is on the record(not spinning) that the the bottom of the cartirdge is level to the record(adjsut the tonearm height). If it is not perfectly level than this will cause the arm to bouce with heavy cueing. Finally look at your Serato record. Unforntunaely they are mass produced and sit in delivery trucks and get warped plus the platter eye whole is always drilled slightly bigger so the record moves around and is not a tight fit. try using a small piece of paper or napkin over the whole then push the record down on the turntable.

[Tom Smit]

Thanks Nate R.
I am not into doing DJ work so this is new info for me.

And again, what a great forum because of all the info that is shared.

[Nate Rouslin]

Seriously if you have something like Shure M447-G needles and you reverse the tonearm weight you should not skip at all. .

Just to clearify something about the Technics SL series tuntables. Reversing the weight does absolutely nothing. Its a weight and no matter which direction you put it in its still a weight. It doesnt change the amount of force on the tone arm at all. You don't how many times in my 18 years of djing that i have seen guys revers the weight thinking it does something. All cartridges are different in weight. I have 3 different kinds of Ortofon style cartridges and they are all different weights. To keep from skipping there a 3 steps. The tone arm wight to cartridge balence. The height of the tone arm in relation to the cartridge and the anti skating. In the paper work with cartridges it should say the weight in grams of the cartridge. The first step is mount the cart. to the tonearm without the needle protector cover, and slowly turn the weight away from the tone arm until the tonearm is balencing in air perfectly level. Once you have that lock the tone arm down. Now take the numbered dial on the weight(not the whole weight) and tunr it til it meets 0. Thn turn the weightcounter clock wise until you get to the cartridge weight in grams( 3.2, 3.5 etc.). Now the arm is set. Next place the needle on a record and turn the tonearm height adjustment up or down until the flat part(the end of the cart.) is parallel with the record. Lock it down and done. next is the anti skating which in the cart. manual it should have the anti skating number to use. If set up properly needles should never skip(with proper use of cueing etc) There are some variables especially with Serato, Tracktor control vinyl. Those companies drill there eye wholes slightly bigger which causes the records to slide around. Juat use a small piece of paper or napkin over the eye spindle on the table and press down your control record for a tight fit.
I hope this helps out people who use 1200s and other tuntables.

[nutronik]

Just to clearify something about the Technics SL series tuntables. Reversing the weight does absolutely nothing. Its a weight and no matter which direction you put it in its still a weight.

Yes it is still a weight, but the distance of that weight to the leverage point is what matters. Reversing the weight brings the mass closer to the leverage point, even though it isn't that much closer, which would allow the weight of the cartridge to have more effect. If some 300 pound person like me was on a teeter toter at the very end and someone who was 150 pounds was on the other end, then that person would be at my mercy sitting high in the air. If I got closer to the leverage point my weight would have less effect due to being closer to the leverage point on the teeter toter. Force equals mass times acceleration. F=ma. Now if you have a big mass on one side you need to have only little acceleration to equal the little mass on the other side and the large acceleration. Ma=mA. This is Newton's Law.

[djslik]

I agree with neutronik on his theory. Regardless of that I think the needles have had a bigger effect for us scratch dj's. I'm not talking about cueing but actual flare, crabs, echos and beat juggling, etc. I know that most DJ's I know that scratch use or have used the Shure M44G's and the reverse weight trick. Flat records and good vinyl control means no skipping even with the big dual 18 Mackie subs sitting right next to us. But back to the topic at hand I don't know why you're skipping so much but check your needles first or upgrade. Easiest solution I can think of.