New here, new project

[Widge]

Hey all, I have a pretty specific bunch of questions you can probably answer.

Background - I am a bass player and currently own an old bass scoop cabinet with a 15" Cetec Gauss 4580 in it. The speaker is great. The cabinet is unwieldy at best and doesn't provide enough projection to justify it's heft.

What I want to build is a cabinet which will use the 4580 throw a decent amount of power to the back of a venue. It will be used with a 4x10 cabinet, so projection is the main thing. The 4x10 takes care of higher frequencies, and since I'm a bass player, there's no point in a tweeter.

I have been thinking about building a W-bin, similar to an old Acoustic 301, or maybe a ported cabinet similar to an Electro-Voice TL606. Then I ran across this site and thought there might be an even better idea, but I don't know yet.

So, here's the question - considering the response range of the 4580 tails off at about 50hz, would a Tuba or Omni work well? I just need to project the lowest frequencies the 4580 can produce, and do it as efficiently as possible. I'll probably put wheels on the bottom of the cabinet, but smaller is better.

Thanks for reading all this, and I look forward to what everyone here says.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

T48 would do the job, but probably not with that driver, for which AFAIK no specs are available.

[Widge]

Here's what I can find for it - assuming it works and assuming it is correct. Both are questionable! It should open up a pdf of the original specs from the manufacturer, from back when it was manufactured.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/ ... 1195251435

'Course, I suppose I could build two of them, one with the 4580 and one with your recommendation. My head will handle 4 ohms without a problem, and it has two speaker outs. In parallel, two 8 ohm speaker cabinets would work fine.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Here's what I can find for it - assuming it works and assuming it is correct. Both are questionable! It should open up a pdf of the original specs from the manufacturer, from back when it was manufactured.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/ ... 1195251435

With only 2.2mm xmax and a Qts of .23 that driver is unsuited for use in any of our cabs, or in any subwoofer for that matter.

[Widge]

Gotcha. Guess it might as well go back into the bass scoop. Then I can start from scratch to build a cabinet which does what I want it to do. How big is a T48?

[Gregory East]

See the burgundy banner link up top of page. It's big. It goes lower than you probably need as well.

Consider trading the whole shebang and building a new (biamp?) rig. Do you really need a monster rig on stage?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Gotcha. Guess it might as well go back into the bass scoop. Then I can start from scratch to build a cabinet which does what I want it to do. How big is a T48?

A lot larger than you want, but if you want something to run with a 4x10 that makes any difference it's as large as you need. But TBH a 4x10 doesn't need assistance in the low end anyway. If one 4x10 isn't loud enough the best fix is another identical 4x10. Your scoop doesn't do what you want it to because it goes no lower than a 4x10 and the two are simply a bad combination.
If you want a multi-way system all well and good, but it must be assembled with components that are well suited to it. A 4x10 is not.

[Mikey]

Personally, I'm not a fan of 4x10 cabs for bass guitar, in general. Most of them just don't have enough bottom end. If you add a sub, then you don't need four 10s on top. IMO, you should rethink your needs and your entire bass guitar system.

If you would like help selecting a good system that will best fill your needs, more information would allow us to give you your best alternatives ...

How many guitarists in your band and what cabs are they using? 1x12s? 2x12s? Half stacks?

Is your drummer excessively loud?

What type of music do you typically play?

Do you mostly just hold down the low pocket or are you into slappin/poppin/thumpin?

How much woodworking experience do you have, and what woodworking tools are available?

What amp(s) are you using?

What bass(es) are you using?

[Widge]

Good questions, and here are some answers, more or less.

Music runs a whole range, with a whole range of sounds I try to get out of my equipment. I play with people who do covers for the most part, so the sound ranges from a 1950s, almost acoustic sound, through an Entwhistle scooped sound, and finally some slapping and popping just for the occasional punctuation mark. So, versatile is best. I'm not a fan of tweeters in bass cabinets and I don't much like the currently popular bass sound which sounds like it has a lot of crumpled paper in it, but other than that, the full range.

Current basses are an Epi Thunderbird and a Gibson EB-2dc with a Dimarzio One neck pickup. Current head is an Acoustic B320 from about 1984. I'm not married to it, but it works fine.

I play with a number of guitarists, and all of them play through 2x12 amps with roughly 100 watts of power. They are loud! Two or three of them cranked up means I have to push a whole lot of air. The drummer can get pretty loud, too. I really don't like pushing the amp to clipping. My current cabinets are 8 ohm cabinets, and the amp can move more air with a 4 ohm load. I can rewire the 410 to produce a 4 ohm load easily enough. It is an old Peavey, but I'm not sure what the drivers are. Probably original, but I don't know for sure.

Woodworking equipment isn't an issue. I have a decent table saw, chop saw, router, and the other hand tools necessary to build a box. I have built wooden chairs and fairly complex tables, so a plywood box, even a complex plywood box, shouldn't be too big a deal.

I'm not wedded to any specific configuration, nor am I wedded to the current amp head, although the current economy is dictating quite a bit of what I can and cannot do. My initial though was to see how to build using what I already have, but if it doesn't do what I want it to do, then there's no point. I would rather build the cabinet(s) myself than spend a whole lot more money on a similar cabinet built by somebody else and with a logo on it.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

A 3012HO loaded OTop 12 atop a 3012LF loaded T39 or 3015LF loaded T48 of the same width will have those guitar'd players crying for their mommies. T39 for standard tuning, T48 for drop tuning.

[Widge]

A 3012HO loaded OTop 12 atop a 3012LF loaded T39 or 3015LF loaded T48 of the same width will have those guitar'd players crying for their mommies. T39 for standard tuning, T48 for drop tuning.

This sounds great, but you are going to have to forgive me for needing a translator. Let me see if I have this right:

3012HO is the speaker. OTop 12 means Omni Top 12. 3012F is the subwoofer speaker, and T39 is Tuba 39.

[Zack Brock]

A 3012HO loaded OTop 12 atop a 3012LF loaded T39 or 3015LF loaded T48 of the same width will have those guitar'd players crying for their mommies. T39 for standard tuning, T48 for drop tuning.

This sounds great, but you are going to have to forgive me for needing a translator. Let me see if I have this right:

3012HO is the speaker. OTop 12 means Omni Top 12. 3012F is the subwoofer speaker, and T39 is Tuba 39.

+1 - You've got it.

Jack 10's and Jack 12's also sound real nice for bass. You could build them tweeterless as well and avoid going the sub route. I would bet that two 3012HO loaded Jack 12's would suffice for both your tonal needs and volume requirements.

[SeisTres]

A 3012HO loaded OTop 12 atop a 3012LF loaded T39 or 3015LF loaded T48 of the same width will have those guitar'd players crying for their mommies. T39 for standard tuning, T48 for drop tuning.

This sounds great, but you are going to have to forgive me for needing a translator. Let me see if I have this right:

3012HO is the speaker. OTop 12 means Omni Top 12. 3012F is the subwoofer speaker, and T39 is Tuba 39.

+1 - You've got it.

Jack 10's and Jack 12's also sound real nice for bass. You could build them tweeterless as well and avoid going the sub route. I would bet that two 3012HO loaded Jack 12's would suffice for both your tonal needs and volume requirements.

Actually the only thing he missed was the tuba 39; it's really the titan but I'm guessing that's what you meant.

[Widge]

What's the difference between an Omni 12 and a DR250? Build complexity isn't really an issue for me, while efficiency is. I would probably use just the top for rehearsal, the whole stack for shows.

I'm thinking about adding a P-Bass to the arsenal, either to replace the Thunderbird or just as an additional option. The cabinets will get built first, though.

I really appreciate everybody's feedback. It sure beats flying blind, which is what I have pretty obviously been doing so far.

[Zack Brock]

What's the difference between an Omni 12 and a DR250? Build complexity isn't really an issue for me, while efficiency is. I would probably use just the top for rehearsal, the whole stack for shows.

I'm thinking about adding a P-Bass to the arsenal, either to replace the Thunderbird or just as an additional option. The cabinets will get built first, though.

I really appreciate everybody's feedback. It sure beats flying blind, which is what I have pretty obviously been doing so far.

A DR250 is more efficient and has higher sound quality over all. The sealed DR250 is fully horn loaded whereas the OmniTop 12 is partially horn loaded and partially vented where the horn loading drops off (around 250Hz if I recall correctly), sort of a combo of the two (part of the reason for the lower efficiency).

The DR250 isn't really that much more difficult to build, just more tedious and time consuming. And less forgiving overall. Personally if you've got the chops, go for the DR250, you can't go wrong.