srs question, direct radiators vs horns

[Monomer]

it wont sound as good when the vodka wears off...

[Radian]

It's not how much, but where the perceived difference occurs. At least 1% THD, and at frequencies your ear is more sensitive at. Remember what Max Mercy was talking about back during his THT build? It took me two seconds to hear the difference in the amount of distortion coming out of that tapped horn I recently built over a pair of AT's. In my case, it manifested itself as a slight lack of clarity in the mid-bass over the AT's, that distinctive driver "wuh" sound on loud, sharp impulses and extra "warmth" when playing tones at very loud volumes. It's kinda difficult for me to describe the timbre in words, but I can pick it out quicker than my mother's voice in a crowd.

The nice thing with a folded horn is you can add that back in with EQ or DSP if you like, but you can't pull it out of a direct radiator sub so easily. No greater number of cabs necessary.

Check this out by listening to the tone. (if your ears aren't already there from the show )

http://www.bcae1.com/thd.htm

*edit* added the %$#* link...woops

[Radian]

Reading back on the history of horn subwoofers in comparison to other options, I'm reminded of this movie quote from Office Space:

http://www.wavlist.com/movies/317/ofsp-grammys.wav

Draw what lines you see fit...

[Dave Non-Zero]

I just did a dnb dubstep show last night with 6t48 and 4 280. You could still have a conversation while 1foot from the mouth of the stack of subs running at full pelt. I still want more.

[LelandCrooks]

I just did a dnb dubstep show last night with 6t48 and 4 280. You could still have a conversation while 1foot from the mouth of the stack of subs running at full pelt. I still want more.

That's because of clarity. You don't have that harmonic distortion muddying up those lower vocal frequencies. The only true test is a db meter. When you're talking in front of the stack you're modulating existing frequencies. If there's already a bunch of noise in the frequency you need, there's no room for your voice to change it anymore. I've been around when horns hit over 130db at shootouts. Your ears are plugged, your body is vibrating, and you can still hear someone talk. Their voice is modulated by the frequency. It's very bizarre.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

That's because of clarity. You don't have that harmonic distortion muddying up those lower vocal frequencies. .

Exactly. With direct radiators above bandwidth distortion can run right up into the midrange, and then you run in to Haas Effect masking, where that distortion is louder than speech and therefore renders speech inaudible. Since horns filter out above bandwidth harmonics you can run them 30dB and more higher than speech level and still hear speech just fine.

[Gauss]

What's that? Super low bass is nearly impossible to hear and only the harmonic distortion at higher frequencies makes it sound loud?

[Radian]

The urge to puke could be an indicator.

[Sydney]

I'm curious if the THD, when the systems around here are run full tilt, doesn't hit 10 or 20 percent.

Paul Klipsch wrote this series Modulation Distortion in Loudspeakers"
http://www.readresearch.co.uk/loudspeak ... icle_1.pdf
See page 3 Bass Loudspeakers

Syd

[Monomer]

Wi, you can get a pocket DB and RTA meter on your Droid. Freeware even.


Not all to accurate, but it'll clue you in.

[Monomer]

I have RTA Pro, the $4 paid one.


Have yet to test it against anything.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

What's that? Super low bass is nearly impossible to hear and only the harmonic distortion at higher frequencies makes it sound loud?

Look at an equal loudness curve. But that's a horse of another color.
If you have a source that only produces output below 100 Hz you won't have trouble hearing vocals over it even if those vocals are 30dB lower in volume, as vocals are strongest at 500 Hz. But if that source is producing sound at 500 Hz, and when pushed hard direct radiator subs will, if that level is only 10dB higher than the vocal levels it will render them inaudible.

[Dave Non-Zero]

Don't get me wrong, I love the lack of distortion and the clarity. And so do the crowd, but I still feel that with a stack of 6 24inch t48 hp running 35-100 hz I really should be feeling sick. Maybe I should push em harder.

question- if I wanted the highest maximum output for roughly the same pack space as 6 to 8 t48, what would be the best?
6 2x12 30 inchers? 6 single 15 30 inchers? Or 8 single 15 24inchers?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Don't get me wrong, I love the lack of distortion and the clarity. And so do the crowd, but I still feel that with a stack of 6 24inch t48 hp running 35-100 hz I really should be feeling sick. Maybe I should push em harder.

question- if I wanted the highest maximum output for roughly the same pack space as 6 to 8 t48, what would be the best?
6 2x12 30 inchers? 6 single 15 30 inchers? Or 8 single 15 24inchers?

Before you get all bent about how loud you think it is get a meter and find out how loud it really is. And consider that if you double your rig you'll only get another 4dB or so.

[sine143]

The above curve does explain the need for more SPL capabilities at lower frequencies, however, I feel like your choice of genres kind of "self attenuates" itself to make up for the human ear.

What I'm trying to get at is that the bass in any given dubstep song, is usually a lot more powerful (as in, if you turned the hi and mid eqs to nothing, you would clip at a lower fader setting than if you turned just the bass down and turned it up on the mixer). This disparity in content means that the songs themselves are lending to a flatter reproduction at the end product.

I've noticed that most of the dnb (not really true for dubstep... sometimes) that I listen to its composed mostly of highs, midrange bass, and sub bass. There is generally not a whole bunch of midrange content... maybe this was intentional to make a resting place for direct radiation distortion

I'm really just thinking outloud