Rock mix slotting

[rpsands]

Not sure if this is the best place for it, but I've been wanting to ask this question for a while -

Say you're working for a generic rock stage mix (that does FOH in some circumstances - no PA support). You've got a two Fender devilles and my rig (Markbass F1 -> fEarful 15/6), and a bose L2 for vocals/acoustic guitar monitoring when we have no PA. How do you eq that to sound good together, given the limited eq of the Fender stack and fixed points of my rig.

I imagine it differs per venue and based on the type of sound you want, but my experience has been that I sometimes get washed out when there's two guitars and have to turn up to hear anything - but then I'm too loud for the mix. Sometimes you can't really hear one or both of the guitars or the acoustic guitar.

Does anyone have thoughts on how you'd approach this type of situation? Two guitars, an acoustic guitar and a baritone vocalist, if that helps. Drums are maple and pretty loud but the drummer has excellent dynamic control mostly.

I guess there's probably insufficient info here, but would love to hear some general approaches

[Gregory East]

You mean a "garage band" performing on stage with no PA?

Guitar amps up on chairs and aimed up at guitatists so they hear themselves loud and proud at least volume. Have someone out front tell the drummer if he's too loud for the "quiet" guitars. Bass and vox to match.

Then worry about your EQ.

[rpsands]

More just a situation where stage volume is a component of the overall sound (e.g. not everything is going to PA), or only vocals are in the PA, or a situation where we're running our own sound and can't spend all night fiddling with it. Supposing either no PA, or the extent of your PA is a generic mixer 3-band eq for each channel (mic from each guitar amp, DI from bass, kick snare hat and cymbal condenser from drums).

And, most importantly, the goal is to get a good sound where everyone can hear everybody, not just each person hear themselves - we improvise a lot, so there's a lot of playing off of each other required.

I'm starting to think that it might require us changing methods rather than eq slotting - maybe having a set of wedgehorns or something with guitar running through them, because the Fender devilles (1x12 and 2x12) are either too directional or not loud enough to hear over drums all over the stage. I don't know which.

I guess to shorten the question to something simple: How would you aim to slot two guitars, an acoustic, and a bass together so that you can hear them all, with acoustic drums? From an EQ perspective.

[Ron K]

Id tone the lead git more to the high side of things and the rhythm to the lowmid side. acoustic keep the reals lows out of and look for a more full range robust sound but hold the bite if you can. Always keep vocals out in front and run HPF on them if you have it.A good way to sound check is run acoustic and lead vocals to a nice full mix. Bring in the drums to fill level and both guitars.Now go back and place the bass firmly in the mix but not so as to make things vibrate.

Listen for notes that tend to take off. EQ them down until tame.

Ask the (you already said loud) drummer to switch to lighter sticks to keep things more under control. Run your bass rig just under the drums but not so loud as to make his hardware vibrate all over creation specifically the snare bands.

Pretty much what your running is a practice volume type mix. As long as no one turns up and starts the volume war you should be fine in most smaller rooms.Think full and detailed instead of loud. You'd be surprised how a good clean mix dominates a room.It's not always about volume!

[Greg Plouvier]

I don't think too many git players would be receptive to changing their tone. On the rare occasion I go out with the guys I jam with we run pretty much the same set up. Kick and vocals in the mix. Vocals in the wedges. I walk the room during sound check (wireless) and adjust stage volumes as needed. Usually there is a pair of ears in the audience to tweek us during sets if necess. I own an O1V so our mix is saved, which I just recall and then we're pretty close each time we go out. I highly recommend this little console to bands that do their own mixes. Best $500 board out there. So are you using the boses as your mons and mains? Little unclear on that.

[BrentEvans]

So are you using the boses as your mons and mains? Little unclear on that.

The whole principle behind the L1/L2 Bose stuff is that it goes behind you and everybody hears the same mix.

[Greg Plouvier]

That may the principle but not everyone uses them that way.