The Germans must be reading Bill's plans

[Steve Regier]

Yes, the Micro Jig Leland sells is a must for table saw saftey.

Ewetho and I are not putting down table saws in general. I bet yours Rigid is much better than my Ryobi. However, after using several table saws including a big Craftsman I was not satisfied. I came to the conclusion that to get the quality cuts I wanted I needed pro quality tools. That meant for me a table saw with a large outboard table and a T-square fence. That put me into some very pricey territory. The Festool delivers the cutting quality I desired at lower cost. Now that I have a number of the tools I am finding new jobs for them; things that I previouly would not attempt. I find that I am bringing my Festools with me on the job (network and premise security and systems integration) and they have saved my bacon a time or two. That is why I am a Festoolman.
All that said, if what you have works for you work it! The important thing here is to build more cabs. I was just trying to relay a tip that works for me and has cut my production time and improved my build quality.

[bean438]

I don't have the rigid table saw. It was just on the list.

I found a place that has Festool in stock.

I am on my way to go check it out.

[Radian]

The portable rail saw Festool is slick. I've seen the Makita in person....close but no cigar. The whole concept appeals to me because I can allocate plenty of space to work on things (outdoors and the garage), but I cannot commit dedicated floor space solely for the storage of large power tools when not in use. Like Baronvonsteve alluded to several times in the thread so far, I get pro-level mill work at a fraction of the cost and permanent space requirements.

It appears to be real nice...perhaps too nice.

Although the level of integration on the Festool provides an elegant piece of kit, think about how quickly it would be to make it all obsolete. Festool has the potential to be the owners worst enemy in that case. I would be inclined to keep close watch of their development. Nothing is perfect right out the gate, and there is the potential for some clever little improvement to come along that totally blindsides the customer base.

-A change in the rail structure
-A base or motor change that, required by design, is not compatible with the other jigs.
-An accessory change that negates another user-critical function.

I'm sure Festool is on top of all this. But I won't let a corporation fool me...they're in it for the bottom line, and if someday that means dicking over their customers, rest assured it has already been considered. I'd just be a little cautious about letting yourself get buttered up by new tech.

[subharmonic]

So I went to my local tool shop this weekend. I am now leaning towards the Makita (btw the Dewault is no longer being sold there is on clearance on their website, it had bad reviews on amazon too).

I felt the Makita offered everything the Festool did for a lower price, it was lighter, and more ergonomical. If price was no object or closer I would be buying German. Just my $.02.

Keep in mind I was not able to use either one and had to go by looks and feel. Has anyone been able to try them side by side?

[jswingchun]

I posted this earlier, but this thread has flared back up and I doubt people are going back to the beginning of the thread. Anyone considering Festool or Makita should at least stop out to the EurekaZone website and look around. Cheaper than FT or Makita, works with the CS you already own and it's a very flexible system. Very DIY friendly. Some stuff FT does better, some things EZ does better. I have an EZ guide rail and it works as advertised.

http://www.eurekazone.com/

[Steve Regier]

I posted this earlier, but this thread has flared back up and I doubt people are going back to the beginning of the thread. Anyone considering Festool or Makita should at least stop out to the EurekaZone website and look around. Cheaper than FT or Makita, works with the CS you already own and it's a very flexible system. Very DIY friendly. Some stuff FT does better, some things EZ does better. I have an EZ guide rail and it works as advertised.

http://www.eurekazone.com/

Only one problem....it works with your existing circular saw. Unless you have a really good one you still have an inferior cutting tool. The plunge cut saw IS part of the benefit. Don't just focus on the rail system.

Bottom line buy the best tools you can afford and build lots of cabs.

TOOLS, TOOLS, TOOLS....I LOVE IT!

[subharmonic]

I posted this earlier, but this thread has flared back up and I doubt people are going back to the beginning of the thread. Anyone considering Festool or Makita should at least stop out to the EurekaZone website and look around. Cheaper than FT or Makita, works with the CS you already own and it's a very flexible system. Very DIY friendly. Some stuff FT does better, some things EZ does better. I have an EZ guide rail and it works as advertised.

http://www.eurekazone.com/

To me the angle cuts was the downfall of the EZ system. Building Tuba/Titans I found myself spending so much time doing these (averaging 30-40% total built time), of course feeling great when I got them right, which is not always. Fast accurate angle cuts as worth their weight in gold for me. I mean as fun as cabs building is, my time is worth something.

Before you fire back, I know EZ system can do them but just not as EZ as Festool and Maki. Measure where you need the edge of the cut to be. Put your track right there and boom your done. No guessing, no multiple measurements, no changing tracks or no multiple cuts to get it done. If EZ can do this I missed it in my research to me that is work the double price.

[bean438]

I went yesterday and saw first hand the Festool, and Dewalt track saw. Just comparing saws, the dewalt seemed well built, but not quite as polished as the festool.

The perfect bevel cuts without remeasuring is a god send.

I also liked the integrated festool system, AND the dust gathering. Their tools are designed for optimum dust collection, especially I liked the auto on feature of the collection units.

I will finnish my TLAH and SLA's with what I have but I will purchase the festool saw with longer track very soon.

For dust I will just use my shop vac for now.

I wonder though how you would cut tweeters on a 45 for the melded array on a track saw? Or do you still use a table saw for this?

[Rune Bivrin]

I wonder though how you would cut tweeters on a 45 for the melded array on a track saw? Or do you still use a table saw for this?

That's one of the things where I used my old table saw / mitre saw combo. The table saw to trim the height, and then the mitre for the 45 degree cuts (the table saw only does square cuts).

It's probably doable with the track saw, but frankly that didn't seem very efficient.

[UROK]

There's a YouTube vid of a Festool mated with the EZ bridge system. To me it appears as if the guy has mounted the Festool track on a wooden strip which then sits on the EZ rail/bridge. I reckon it means bevel cuts are out so on that one IMO Festool wins. However, when it comes to piezos and square or repeatable cuts I think the EZ One bench appears to be better or safer. I have yet to see a Festool saw in the EZ base plate so not sure if you could set it to do bevel cuts but for plunge cuts the thickness of the EZ rail would put the Festool's guide marks out a bit if you were to use them together. For me as a novice the Festool seems to offer pretty safe and accurate potential. If I were going to drop money on a pro table saw I would consider both.

[UROK]

The opposite side of the EZ rail is where you do bevel cuts apparently one side for straight cuts and then other for bevels. But I haven't seen a vid of that yet. Also I saw or read that the whole EZ bridge can tilt. One reviewer said it meant you had to be careful with the saw as it has a tendency to topple of the rail! Again though I haven't seen that feature in action nor is it demo'd on the EZ site. So it appears bevel cuts are possible even maybe zero clearance ones. Doesn't appear to be as nifty as the Festool though IMVHO.

[jswingchun]

I am with you on bevel cuts being the weakness of the EZ system. I know this isn't as slick as the FT, but a workaround is to use the other side of the rail without the anti-chip plastic edge installed. Set the angle on your saw, tape a piece of thin cardboard to the underside of the rail and cut it on a piece of scrap ply. That cardboard is now your cutline for that angle. Just as accurate as FT, but more work of course.

I know Dino at EZ is working on a deal with a saw manufacturer to have a saw built for the EZ system. That would address this and other issues, but would also bring the system price closer to what FT is.

Like UROK said, the bridge system on the EZ is capable of doing angle cuts. I have seen the FT bridge, and it is lame in comparison.

Both systems have advantages and disadvantanges, just like any other tool.

[bean438]

So I plunked down the plastic and walked out of the store with the Festool 55 a few days ago.

The saw is top notch, and cuts really well. Dust port goes right into my shop vac so no mess. Bevel cuts are easy. Set bevel, line up guide, and away you go.

My only real issue so far, and it is purely my doing, I start with a square piece, and after I cut I can be slightly out. I guess being just a smidge out can throw you out of whack. This is where the table saw has an advantage. The fence self squares and gives you a straight cut whereas the festool requires precision.

I also found that cutting smaller pieces was more of a challenge (possible more so then a table saw) i.e you have cut a 7.5" wide piece by 28" long, and now you have to cut the 28" down to 4-7" pieces.

But if you have the festool worktable with mitre angles, and short guiderail I can see it being a snap to do, although now you are into festool for over a grand (CDN prices).

The whole festool "system" looks real impressive.

[Steve Regier]

Welcome to the family! Just a few tips if I may.

1. A good table saw with a t-sqaure fence will stay true but a setting the fence on a common home owner variety to be accurate and square can be onerous as well. I find that if I mark my cut in several places and then draw a cut line with a square and then place the Festool rail my cuts are always on. If you find a cut you made is not true do not hesitate to mark where you you need to true up and cut again. The Festool is quite capable of fine cuts.

2. Make your own worktable. No need to get the Festool table right away. Cut a piece of 3/4" A/C ply to a good working size. I use 4'x6'. Anchor it to some quide boards by clamping and using only PL as you do not want any metal in the table surface. You will be cutting into it. I use 2 1x2s laminated and trued. Then place the assembly on two horses of desired height. Set the tool for a cutting depth of 22mm for 1/2" matterial and moderate to high blade speed. The saw will cut shallow groves into the table surface. This is OK and actually benificial. The pieces will not fall away after cutting allowing you to focus on accuracy and the groves as they develop will help grip the wood you are cutting.

3. Keep some cauls about to assist you in the smaller cuts like braces. Place the cauls arround the piece to be cut to stabilize the rail. Then cut as usual. Once again use an area where you have some grooves from previous cuts as they will help stabilize the small piece you are cutting.

If you have any other questions post them or PM me. I'll be happy to help.

[bean438]

baronvonsteve, I love this tool! I cut my SLA curve baffle last night, and the cuts were precise, and smooth as glass.

I am getting better at marking, and remembering what side of the piece I need to place my line.

When I cut the SLA the piece was to the left of the cut line so I lined up right on the line. Then I realized I was cutting into the actual piece dimensions, so I lined up at the cut line and had to add the kerf to it.

I did have on e accident though:

When cutting my TLAH baffle (63 degree cut) I clamped vertically, and set the angle to 27. Near the end the saw lifted off the rail (1 gripe I have about the festool saw) and cut into my rail. The saw needs to be supported carefully when beveled. I was caught off guard.

So the rail and edge got cut, but for the most part I can still use the rail. The saw still slides the whole length. If I replace the cutting strip it will be as good as new, except for a gouge in the rail .

The table is in the wish list, but I was able to cut the small SLA baffle pieces by using pieces of wood to clamp in the piece to be cut, and clamping it securely.

I think before people dismiss the high price of this saw they really need to use it first. I do find though that my shop vac filter needs to be brushed out frequently, so i am going to buy one of those cyclone 5 gallon pail thingies that catch most of the dust before it hits the vac filter. Eventually I will buy the festool dust collector. Auto on is very nice.

Another thing about the festool lineup is the very low amount of dust produced.

I appreciate the offer to help. I am sure I will have more questions in the future.