The Germans must be reading Bill's plans

[Harley]

EZ system doesn't have the angle cuts EZ enough IMHO, since Tubas and Titans require a lot of them seems like a waste of time

Seeing you have the table saw, use that for your angle cuts and track system for cutting the large sheets to approx size.

[subharmonic]

EZ system doesn't have the angle cuts EZ enough IMHO, since Tubas and Titans require a lot of them seems like a waste of time

<br siber__q92dpb7seovvtbh5__vptr="8641280">Seeing you have the table saw, use that for your angle cuts and track system for cutting the large sheets to approx size.

A. I don't want a tablesaw as one big enough to rip panels is too big for my small garage

B. The one I use you get "the pump" as Arnie calls it putting it at an angle

C. I almost took a board from the saw to the face today from my new and improved tablesaw

[Steve Regier]

I have been looking at these track saws for a couple weeks now. I am leaning towards the Maki or Festool. The EZ system doesn't have the angle cuts EZ enough IMHO, since Tubas and Titans require a lot of them seems like a waste of time.

So IS the Festool worth the $130 or more than the Makita? Does anyone know if the slick Festool Irwin type clamps work on the Makita track?

IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT GET THE FESTOOL! I can't say it enough. The tool system is pro quality and worth every penny. I keep finding new things. The pulse drive system keeps the blade turning at the desired RPM. This keeps the blade sharper longer. Go to the Festool site and look at the videos and demos. They are not hype. The tools perform as advertised. I can't talk this tool system up enough.
There is a reason why finish carpenters and woodworkers of all stripes are getting into Festool.
I was working with a client last night who used to own a large woodworking shop. He was telling me about all the equipment I would need to go into limited production of cabinets. He spoke of three phase saws with large tables. I showed him the Festool site. He was amazed and said,"....that will do. I think I may get one of those saws." This coming from a professional builder who has one hell of a table saw.
There is a reason why you hear things like "just like Festool...or... works with Festool...or...cuts like Festool but cheaper". Just get the tool that all the others compare themselves to. You will not be sorry.

[subharmonic]

Well after telling my wife about my mishaps with the "new" saw yesterday she is on board. So now just wait for a sale. After this T60 is done I am done building until next spring. I will look for a TS55 on sale or something.

[Harley]

C. I almost took a board from the saw to the face today from my new and improved tablesaw

You have to be on your game at all times with a table saw !

[bean438]

I "was" looking at a table saw purchase and using bills panel jig.

At first I thought the Festool was either too "pro" for me, and perhaps a little hyped. After viewing their website, and some random web searching I think I am sold.

I did come across the Dewalt track saw which looks pretty much the same as the Festool.

I also watched a good comparison video of the Festool and Dewalt saw. Pretty close. WHat are your thoughts on the Dewalt track system?

The disadvantages of the Festool to me are basically I can see a second mortgage once I fall in love, and start buying all the other toys they make. I also dont like the fact that I have to order Festool from some importer locally, not a retail store.

I dont doubt the quality, but for some reason I like being able to walk into a store and look at something, and be able to return things, or bring something back to a store for warranty.

I can buy a Dewalt system whereas I have to order the festool from someone I really am not familiar with. Many of my current tools are Dewalt, and I am happy with them, so maybe I am guilty of brand loyalty.

I was looking to buy a Rigid portable saw for around 500 bucks, so the track saw is within the budget.

There are still a few questions though:

1. Track saw can do things better than a table saw i.e bevel cuts without re measuring. Is there anything a table saw can do that a track saw cannot?

2. I already have circular saw sleds built for straight cuts, 5 degree bevel, 25 degree bevel, and 27 degree bevel. I can always build sleds for the required bevel. I can see space savings with a track saw as I dont need a half dozen jigs, but since they are already built the need for a track saw diminishes.
Would a purchase still be justified?
I am building some home theatre speakers, and some PA cabinets. I can manage with the jigs, although I think a track saw is like a car starter, or garage door opener. You can manage without but after you use one you wonder how you did without.
I will also be installing hardwood floors in my dining room. Ripping planks lenghwise is on instance where a table saw has the advantage right? It would be pretty hard to place a huge track on a small hardwood plank.

[Steve Regier]

Don't mess around. Get the Festool. It is in your budget and can do more than I can list here. Nobody has a system that works together like the Festool system. The more I work with my Festools the more I wonder about what I was doing before I had them. With my Festool jig saw and plunge saw I knocked out a SLA in a day. I cut panels for an Autotuba with perfect circle in the baffle in minutes. My table saw is just sitting gathering dust. I even use the plunge saw for ripping small flanges and such. The Festool system really works and is well thought out. Don't buy an imitation get the real deal. It is a pleasure to have tools that do what you want with ease.

[bean438]

Baron do you also have the Festool dust collection unit? I currently have no dust collection, but for the mean time I was just gonna hook up my shop vac to collect most of the saw dust.

I know it isnt as ideal as a dedicated dust collection unit, but for the mean time, why not?

Or I could just do what I am doing now, which is just sweeping off my workpieces on the ground and then occasionally sweeping up.

[Steve Regier]

The dust collection unit is next on my list as now I will be working in an enclosed heated shop. I have connected my shop vac and it works but the collection unit is nice since it cycles on/off with the tool.

[bean438]

I can think of one thing you cant do with a track saw (I think) and need a table saw for:

Bevels cuts greater than 45 degrees. Build an extra high rip fence, stand your panel on edge, and 90- degree needed = where you set your blade.

I still like the advantage of making bevel cuts without re positioning or measuring that a track saw has.

But I am not completely sold on Festool over Dewalt.

Maybe these are dumb reasons but, prior to joining this forum I have never heard of Festool, nor can I find anywhere locally where i can see one, and buy one on the spot. Cant really find the Dewalt one either but at least I can order it in from any Dewalt dealer.

It just seems weird, and cult like. In fact some Festool forums will flame you if you even dare question these tools.
Not wanting to start a flame fest but if Festool is so good, then why does no one carry their tools?

I will admit they have an impressive "system" but if I dont need the system then Dewalt or Makita should be fine.

It's not like either of those companies cannot build good tools. Festool just happened to think of it first and have a patent.

Just my thoughts.

[Steve Regier]

Clamp the piece to be cut vertically at the end of the worktable. Set the rail at the end of panel. Set the cut for the included angle and cut. Done!
As far as the Festool forums go, I can not say. I only spend time in this forum. I can say that I am a tad bit exasperated by all the doubt about the quality of the tool or is the tool worth the money. I don't like wasting money. And that is the point. I WASTED money on my couple hundred buck cheap homeowner grade table saw. Pro table saw versus pro Festool saw they both have their strong points. But the Festool costs less than $500 whereas the pro table saw will setup you back three times that or more. The Festool IS the bargin. I have yet to see a table saw I would swap for my Festool within the under $500 price bracket.
So come to my listening party on the 13th and try the Festool. Then you to will understand this ain't no track saw. It's a pro tool system and that is why it has so many loyal users.
You just don't understand until you accually use one.
"It's a Festool thing"

[ewetho]

But I am not completely sold on Festool over Dewalt.

Maybe these are dumb reasons but, prior to joining this forum I have never heard of Festool, nor can I find anywhere locally where i can see one, and buy one on the spot. Cant really find the Dewalt one either but at least I can order it in from any Dewalt dealer.

It just seems weird, and cult like. In fact some Festool forums will flame you if you even dare question these tools.
Not wanting to start a flame fest but if Festool is so good, then why does no one carry their tools?


Just my thoughts.

Our area Pro-Tool store carried them and apparently sells out of them. I too never heard of them before geting involved with this and not until Steve got his.

The Makita or was it Dewalt that has the Copy of the Festool (Sincerest form of FLATTERY) to the point it workd on Festools Rails is proof in the design. After finding out about them and then askng around to guys int he carpentry business around here they are VERY common and getting more so. The guys who know get them in spite of the cost and because they just work.

Now is it that much better than the other brands copy, I can not tell you for sure. But. the Festool is as advertised. AMAZING!!!

Trying to do that high rip fence thing on a small homeowners version of a table say is no easy thing either. Bu if you had a vertical box with a sacrificial cutting edge at the top corner to cut you could cut steeper agles too. Just clamp to the vertical squarely and cut from the outer edge back to the edge against the vertical at you agle needed and true the other end to length and agle you need. Simple really.

Steve kind of beat me too the response though....

[bean438]

baronvonsteve, and ewetho, I do value your input, and I am not questioning per say. I am the last person to give an opinion, as I just started building a TLAH last week, and tonight used a router for the first time ever.

I have no idea how good or bad tools are. I thought the 500 dollar Rigid table saw was of a "pro" quality compared to the cheaper 100 dollar table saws.

I understand by clamping vertically you can acheive high degree bevel cuts, but you would have to be totally level. My garage floor isnt level so this would be a problem maybe?

At least with a table saw the table, and fence are always square and level even if the table saw is not on level ground. But just as you have a solution to the "high fence on a table saw" maybe you have a solution to clamping vertically while being level?

Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I am very new to all of this.

If I do purchase the Festool saw i think i would get this as well:

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/guid ... 00108.html

I found that using the circular saw sled my cuts were a bit out of square. This accessory would help.

I guess I can always go to the distributor and ask if there any users in my area that wouldn't mind me swinging by the shop to have a peek.

Before I drop 500+ on anything, I just want to get as much information as I can.

Thanks for chiming in guys.

[Rune Bivrin]

baronvonsteve, and ewetho, I do value your input, and I am not questioning per say. I am the last person to give an opinion, as I just started building a TLAH last week, and tonight used a router for the first time ever.

I have no idea how good or bad tools are. I thought the 500 dollar Rigid table saw was of a "pro" quality compared to the cheaper 100 dollar table saws.

I understand by clamping vertically you can acheive high degree bevel cuts, but you would have to be totally level. My garage floor isnt level so this would be a problem maybe?

At least with a table saw the table, and fence are always square and level even if the table saw is not on level ground. But just as you have a solution to the "high fence on a table saw" maybe you have a solution to clamping vertically while being level?

Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I am very new to all of this.

If I do purchase the Festool saw i think i would get this as well:

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/guid ... 00108.html

I found that using the circular saw sled my cuts were a bit out of square. This accessory would help.

I guess I can always go to the distributor and ask if there any users in my area that wouldn't mind me swinging by the shop to have a peek.

Before I drop 500+ on anything, I just want to get as much information as I can.

Thanks for chiming in guys.

I've got the Makita which is a complete copy of the Festool to the point where the rails are identical. You need the rail - that's a very important part of the plunge saw idea. With that the cuts are at the edge of the guide rail. No drift, no offset. If you measure carefully you'll get your pieces cut at your measurement precision.

The accessory you link to helps aligning the board perpendicular to a work piece which will be useful for very quick action doing lots of cuts of narrow bits. I honestly don't think you need it for BFM stuff, even if it might be useful for cutting flanges and the like.

[Harley]

I found that using the circular saw sled my cuts were a bit out of square. This accessory would help....

The accessory you link to helps aligning the board perpendicular to a work piece which will be useful for very quick action doing lots of cuts of narrow bits. I honestly don't think you need it for BFM stuff, even if it might be useful for cutting flanges and the like.

I agree, that accessory is not entirely necessary and money would be better spent on other Festools if that's the way the tide is coming in.

The best investment to compliment the Festool guide rail and plunge saw is a large top quality metal square and a long top quality metal rule. You'll still have something left over for a router or orbital sander perhaps.

And if you have a table saw, then Leland has some nifty safety device which allows you to cut very small pieces of wood accurately and safely including flanges.