BillFitzmaurice.info

good amp today at americal musical supply deal of the day


a mackie m2000 for $279
http://www.americanmusical.com/RSS_Feeds/Ndnd.aspx

No one seems to have noticed that the Pic of the EP4000 is identical to the pic of the EP2500 apart from the transformer.




I read on another forum that it was the same amp with a new badge, this confirms it.
I have seen other examples of the EP2500s with differents torroids. The older ones have bigger ones.

In a recent amp shootout on Spakerplans.co.uk The Beringer held its own with some esteemed company.
It measured 131.4 db into 8x EM Quake horns, running 2ohms per channel. The Peavey CS 800 Measured 129 db
I would not expect the EP2500 to do that for very long at 2ohms before it failed though.
Amps need a big PSU and at least 2 fans to run reliably at 2ohms.

Very long thread, but good info here if your interested: http://forum.speakerplans.com/amplifier ... age56.html

It's about time for the moderators to do away with this thread. BUT. since they haven't, the pictures above don't prove much of anything other than that both amps (may) use the same extruded aluminum heatsink--which is made by neither Behringer or QSC. And they get many (if not all) of their parts from the same sources. I have the QSC schematic. I don't have the Behringer schematic (and as far as I know neither does anybody else). But there are enough differences in those photos to indicate that the Behringer is NOT an exact copy. It may very well be a copy in the same way that a Marshall Super Lead is a "copy" of the Fender Bassman though.

On the other hand, there are at least 3 amps out there that are much closer visually to the QSC than the Behringer is. And strangely enough one of them comes from one of Loud Technologies brands.

But the bottom line is this whole thing has been beat to death and no amount of arguing one way or the other is going to change anybodies mind.

So give it a rest.

(By the way, I don't own any Behringer or QSC amps, and am unlikely to purchase any Behringer amps [they offer nothing over my existing Crown and Peavey amps--when I buy more amps they WILL be the newer techology because of weight])

-ray

Other than the fact they laid out the chassis in similar formation, there is nothing the same about the two.

The QSC design is very easy to duplicate/clone since QSC freely distributes schematics on their current products.The other part is QSC does not manufacture a lot of the internal parts either. They simply use commonly available items and package them in their designs.

Crown on the other hand and Peavey does as well makes their own internal parts.That's why you dont see a ton of clones if any. It would get too costly to manufacture. Try getting a current Crown Schematic of an in production amp. You wont, unless you are a dealer/authorized repair person.I'm not sure but I believe Peavey does this as well but I dont know if they hold the same practices with the Crest products.

Even the Crown output cans are proprietary. While there are generally some ECG replacements that will work Crown recommends matched sets so proceed at your own risk if using something ...."close".

Deciding whether or not B-ringer cloned the QSC RMX design is a rather moot point in the present day.Apparantly QSC does not care or they would be going Mackie on their ass

The original topic is about whether or not the 4000 has the same reliability and performance under the same circumstances as the 2500.Anyone can hotrod an amp. Clairs does this all the time.The big question is there really something worthwhile gained by it?

Also an underlying madness is if everyone jumps to 4000s then there very well may be tons of 2500s dumped in the marketplace cheap.I mean brand new they're cheap, used they could end up ridiculously cheap!

Just thought I'd edit this and throw this out there for others to ponder. My buddy who has a few Crown 3600s and QSC RMX amps picked up 3 of the B-ringer 2500s at a rather low price. Something in the neighborhood of $250.00 ea. He racked them and began using them at monitor duty only.Only 2 as 1 was a spare.One of his Crown 3600s took a dump (very rough service) so he hooked up 4 EAW BH500s (kilomax loaded) up to one B-ringer bridged mono. Yep 2 ohms mono!!!!
He was trying to keep up with the Other Crown which had the other 4 but in stereo.It ran for 2 hrs straight bridged mono @ 2 ohms until it finally thermal'd! The bad news is it never fully recovered and the damage was permanent but he finished the show limping to the end.

The Crown had since been repaired (bad IOC circuit kept it clamping on the outputs) and the 2 B-ringers are now at 4yrs service on monitor duty.He threw the fried 2500 out in the garage and might scavenge it for parts if the need arises.

I finaly dug out the discussion I remembered from speakerplans:

"The EP4000 is a EP2500 with ATR technology. That stands for Accelerate to ripoff LOL. Just look at the owner manual carefully: same same, same power consumption, same gain, same weight just now more instantaneous magical Chinese power."

The EP4000 is the same amp as the EP2500, with an 8A rated circuit breaker instead of the 5A EP2500, and a badge which refers to the Peak power rating, as opposed to the continuous power rating used to name the EP2500.

Link: http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer ... ?KW=EP4000

I am not suggesting the behringer EPs are Identical to QSCs, because like all behringer kit, they are built with the cheapest inferior chineese components. Having said that, they will run subs fine where refined sound quality is not a issue.
If you keep to 4ohms per channel, then they will not overheat and breakdown either, but this is also true of any budget amp.

The EP4000 is the same amp as the EP2500, with an 8A rated circuit breaker instead of the 5A EP2500, and a badge which refers to the Peak power rating, as opposed to the continuous power rating used to name the EP2500.

Not entirely correct at least from the Manuals I have.

Both EP4000 and EP2500 have 15 amp breakers @ 120 volts and 8 amp @ 220 volts.

The 4000 shows peek power and RMS sine power specs. The 2500 does not show any peak power specs.That's the only difference I see specs wise. Same amp??? Probably with some minor changes.The real issue is the price hasn't changed much and the 2500s are dropping in price.

The big question is , Are they as reliable as the 2500s? NE1 with reliability knowledge shout out!

Just an FYI...I have:
three EP4000
Six T-60's.

Two T-60's per EP4000 (Lab 15's) paralleled, and bridged.

According to the specs, that about 1200 watts per box.

I own a skating rink, and had a lock in this weekend, and the EP4000 were POUNDING from 7pm until 7am, with only one problem...The Police stated that the neighbors were complaining that we were rattling their windows.

I just got these hooked up and am VERY impressed with the results. Thanks BFM and all that helped with my "training"...Pics of project to follow!

Ron K wrote:

The big question is , Are they as reliable as the 2500s? NE1 with reliability knowledge shout out!

my experience is..I've installed racks of both in permanent installs. EP1.5k, 2k. 2.5k and 4k. Consistent across the board. Out of dozens of these models I had one (a new ep2000) with an input issue, returned and replaced no prob. Why would I trust my rep to a product like this?
I trust them to not fail under proper conditions (they haven't). They have the capacitance and ps to manage dynamics and loads as well as any other <$500 amp. And at the price point I can buy several backups for the clients' stock, which I always do.

That said,of course, these are anchors and personally would not consider them for any mobile apps, too many sweet lightweight amps now... Business ethics are always relevant and there are things I won't compromise on, this just aint one of em.

Rollerknights wrote:Just an FYI...I have:
three EP4000
Six T-60's.

Two T-60's per EP4000 (Lab 15's) paralleled, and bridged.

According to the specs, that about 1200 watts per box.

I own a skating rink, and had a lock in this weekend, and the EP4000 were POUNDING from 7pm until 7am, with only one problem...The Police stated that the neighbors were complaining that we were rattling their windows.

I just got these hooked up and am VERY impressed with the results. Thanks BFM and all that helped with my "training"...Pics of project to follow!

Nice

Just an FYI...I have:
three EP4000
Six T-60's.

i run my dual lab12 from one side of an ep4000 and im happy with it so far!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TNjr91F ... rofilepage

This is the effect of 6 tuba 60's and three Beringer EP4000's

Thought I'd share


This much sound in one building should be a crime!

Jim

That's hilarious. And a big area to have that much air moving.

LelandCrooks wrote:That's hilarious. And a big area to have that much air moving.

+1. Agreed...that is too funny...wow!

I'm using one side of an EPQ 1200 running my two T30's. Been just fine so far and easily gets to the voltages I need.