BillFitzmaurice.info

Great job so far. Just make sure you make them air tight and everything will be good to go.
That's one hell of a rig you are building. We should be able to hear it over here when you fire it up!

My brother and I had to suspend the build to enable us do two shows covering over five thousand people each .We used this line array called Munson from a Chinese company. They were stinking loud outdoors. I hope to quickly complete rigs to match such performance. I believe a combination of 8 DR250 and 8 OTop12 j array will do the trick.

Looking good! I wish we had 4 more t48s, maybe one day.

Hi Cave,

I believe a combination of 8 DR250 and 8 OTop12 j array will do the trick.

Did you intend that these would be used together? ie at one show?

If so, you may need to rethink this plan.
The different horn designs mean there will be phase issues between the two groups of cabs.
Leading to possible, even probable response nulls. This is generally not able to be fixed by EQ. And may not be fixable by altering phase by DSP.

You would need to explore this issue quite thoroughly...

Grant Bunter wrote:Hi Cave,

I believe a combination of 8 DR250 and 8 OTop12 j array will do the trick.

Did you intend that these would be used together? ie at one show?

If so, you may need to rethink this plan.
The different horn designs mean there will be phase issues....

You would need to explore this issue quite thoroughly...

We will mostly be doing indoors but intend to run for medium and larger venues, four DR's per side and do delay lines with the OTops at about 25 metres. I believe this will work. What are your thoughts?

cave wrote: We will mostly be doing indoors but intend to run for medium and larger venues, four DR's per side and do delay lines with the OTops at about 25 metres. I believe this will work. What are your thoughts?

If the Munson cabs you used averaged 100dB in sensitivity 1W/1m, then 8 x DR250's (4 a side) would be the same as 16 of the Munson cabs.

That should give you some idea of just how good the DR250's are. I would check the figures on the Munson cabs, just so you know and can compare.

Although a 25m distance (in terms of frequency band for mains/tops) should be far enough away not to be an issue, using Otops for delay stacks still means you are trying to reproduce the same frequencies, but in another location which isn't isolated, and with different cabs in terms of phase response. This may still present itself as a phase issue.

I've been trying to read up a lot on phase response lately.
There seems to be a lot of material about phase issues and recording, but not a lot on phase when reproducing music, either recorded or live, other than the usual checking the phase relationship between subs and tops.

While there are papers about adjusting phase with delay, phase shifting and other methods, they tend to be focused on a single frequency.
That's not music though.
So the amount of delay and degree of phase shift may work for one frequency, but not another or all the rest.

I guess the thing to do is try it all out well beforehand and see if it's an issue.
This would let you decide if the 8 x DR250's are in fact enough by themselves, or that using the Otops in delay stacks with DR's as the main stack is an issue in terms of phase...

cave wrote: We will mostly be doing indoors but intend to run for medium and larger venues, four DR's per side and do delay lines with the OTops at about 25 metres. I believe this will work. What are your thoughts?

Line arrays don't need remotes closer than 50 meters, and that's outdoors. Indoors they typically don't need them at all.

Assuming an area to be covered is the size of half a soccer field. 50meters square. Could the 8 DR 250 cover this area adequately?

cave wrote:Assuming an area to be covered is the size of half a soccer field. 50meters square. Could the 8 DR 250 cover this area adequately?

2 stacks of 4, 10-15 meters apart, will more than do the job. If they must be closer together, toe them in to each other for wider dispersion.

Subs are going to be your nemesis on open ground. Bring and use a lot, I would want at least 16 drivers, no matter the design. 2 stacks of 8 drivers, at least 18m apart.

Grant Bunter wrote:

cave wrote: We will mostly be doing indoors but intend to run for medium and larger venues, four DR's per side and do delay lines with the OTops at about 25 metres. I believe this will work. What are your thoughts?

If the Munson cabs you used averaged 100dB in sensitivity 1W/1m, then 8 x DR250's (4 a side) would be the same as 16 of the Munson cabs.

Here are the specs of the Munson line array i mentioned earlier. It's the Munson TenK Array

Speaker Type 3-way passive full range loudspeaker

Configuration 2x12"+2x10+2x2"+ Horn

Operating range 80Hz-16 kHz

Nominal Impedance HF:2x8Ω, MF: 2x8Ω,, LF: 2x8Ω,

Power Capacity (RMS) HF:300W, MF: 600W,, LF: 800W

Power Capacity (Peak) HF:600W, MF: 1200W,, LF: 1600W

Sensitivity (1W/1M) HF:110dB, MF: 106dB,, LF: 102dB

Max. SPL HF:142dB, MF: 138dB,, LF: 132dB

Dispersions 80º H ×6º V

Horn Exit (dia.) 1"(25mm)

Voice coil 2"(44mm)

Dimensions HWD(mm) 384×1145×750

Thanks,
I found the specs here:
http://www.munsonpro.com/en/productdeta ... classid=18
Even that page is only half complete, with Features and Omni View "available soon".

While it is not uncommon for many companies to not provide SPL charts, it always begs the question: Is the company trying to hide something?
There's certainly no way to verify their claims.
I tried to look for a user manual, but you need to be a registered user with password.
That is weird.

I know one importer of a world famous system locally, and even he cannot get TS specs for drivers or SPL charts for products via the parent company.

How many of the Munson cabs did you use per side?

For venues of One Kilo-people, Ten Kilo-people or dozens of thousand people, TenK Array speaker system can leisurely handle its sound reinforcement. What talent on earth does TenK have? Complex engineering calculations and tests and internal acoustic structure on TenK is dull to users.

Methinks English ain't their first language......

114 kg (241 lb) !!

Grant Bunter wrote:Thanks,
I found the specs here:
http://www.munsonpro.com/en/productdeta ... classid=18
Even that page is only half complete, with Features and Omni View "available soon".



How many of the Munson cabs did you use per side?

We used 12 cabs 6 per side.

Guys I've been checking Pulseman's setup of OT12 and T48 combination and I feel cool already.
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewt ... 13&t=17611