Hello - Long time reader, first time question asker

[DJPhatman]

The Dr250 could be an option but it wont pack the same punch for it's size as the OT12 with 3012HO and NSDdrivers. Also the DR250 is quite a timecomsuming build.

This is incorrect. 1 DR250 sounds as good as 2 OT12, or an OT2X12. If you have the time and woodworking chops to build DRs, then build them. Second best is the OT12.

If you will always bi-amp your tops, then use the compression drivers. If you will never bi-amp your tops, then use the piezos. This choice between the piezo or CD is personal otherwise. The least expensive build option is passive with piezos. The most expensive option is passive with CD drivers. Bill's whole idea about all of his designs is to get the best sound from inexpensive drivers. We all cringe when we hear "piezos" in a speaker. But, the arrays just simply kick ass and are stupid cheap. What more do you need?

[Preston]

Sadly no, I don't get over to Quincy very often. It's not that I'm adverse to the idea, I just haven't had the opportunity. I'm sure the band would be happy to play a gig there if one were to fall our way....hehe

[Turntablist]

The Dr250 could be an option but it wont pack the same punch for it's size as the OT12 with 3012HO and NSDdrivers. Also the DR250 is quite a timecomsuming build.

This is incorrect. 1 DR250 sounds as good as 2 OT12, or an OT2X12. If you have the time and woodworking chops to build DRs, then build them. Second best is the OT12.

If you will always bi-amp your tops, then use the compression drivers. If you will never bi-amp your tops, then use the piezos. This choice between the piezo or CD is personal otherwise. The least expensive build option is passive with piezos. The most expensive option is passive with CD drivers. Bill's whole idea about all of his designs is to get the best sound from inexpensive drivers. We all cringe when we hear "piezos" in a speaker. But, the arrays just simply kick ass and are stupid cheap. What more do you need?

They probably sound as good (never heard an OT12) but I think the OT12 with top drivers will get as loud or louder than a DR250, and since it is smaller it packs more punch for it's size (as in more volume for it's size)..

I and others have had problems with piezos at high volumes, according to sydney they occur around 27V, I think an NSD will take about the same amount of power but with a higher sensitivity it will get louder.

[drihanek]

Ok, after reading some more and hearing all your advice, it looks like I will be going with the OT12 and T39's. I am still working this out and trying to understand, is this a one to one (tops to bottoms) system? I may still buy the DR250 and 48 plans. Anyone have any advice about whether to do passive or bi-amped tops?

[DJPhatman]

For a bass rig, 1 to 1 top to bottom cabs, and always bi-amp if it is possible. Active crossovers work better as they can be easily configured, and you will only be working with line level power, instead of high powered speaker levels. Passive leaves too many variances available.

[LelandCrooks]

They probably sound as good (never heard an OT12) but I think the OT12 with top drivers will get as loud or louder than a DR250, and since it is smaller it packs more punch for it's size (as in more volume for it's size)..

No it won't. Maybe on a size vs volume basis, the otop is the winner, (that would require math ), but on every other standard the DR250 is untouchable. I've run them side by side, played with levels and eq. A DR250 will bury an Otop 1x pretty quickly. I've had DR250's next to Omni 10's , Omni 2x10's, Otop 1x12's, Otop 2x15's, WH10's, and sundry assorted mfg boxes. The Omni 2x10 held it's own for a while, the 2x15 got it in the mid bass and lower (doh) and nothing else came close. And nothing came close when it was properly eq'ed in sound quality.

There is a reason Bill calls it the flagship. More of a general purpose box than 200's or 280's. It offers the best combination of reasonable size and response. I'd kind of forgotten how much I like this cab until I recently completed a pair for a customer. Can't wait to finish my new set of 4, set em up and tweak em out.

[drihanek]

Leland - would you say go with the DR250's then as the replacements? Is that still a 1 to 1 ratio with the T39's? And that would be bi-amped?

Preston - if you do ever get to Quincy let me know I'd like to hear your system.

[LelandCrooks]

Dr200's or DR250's. 1 to 1 is fine, 1 to 2 with 250's is probably better. But that's what controls on crossovers are for. To match levels.

Biamp with comp horns, do not with piezos. IMHO

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Biamp with comp horns, do not with piezos. IMHO

Maybe. The main reason to bi-amp a top is when one amp doesn't have enough juice to push the system. If that system is a pair or two of DRs per side they don't need a lot of power, and one moderate size amp will push them. If you go to more than two per side then bi-amping makes sense, and then the amp to push the HF section can be half the power rating of the one to push the woofers.

[Turntablist]

Maybe on a size vs volume basis, the otop is the winner, (that would require math )

That was what I meant.
In the chartssection 2 OT12s are compared to two DR250s and the DRs run on average 1-2 db hotter than the OTs and with the same amount of inputpower the DR should run loudest. Though with the 3012HO sensitivity and powerhandling are both increased and it should poke the OTs right up with the DRs or higher.
Bill stated that a 3012HO in a DR280 rather than a 2512 would make it 4-5db louder, I don't expect as dramatic results in the OT being a shorter horn that don't control the cone as well as the horn of the DR would, but an increase around 2-3db is not a bad guess.
Now put 2-3 db in the comparison between the 2 OTs and the 2 DRs where the DR runs 1-2db hotter and you can see why I said what I said in the earlier post. The OTs should run as hot or just a grain hotter an the DRs. And being a considerably smaller box you can see my assumption.
As for the sound of the DRs I'm on the same boat.

[WB]

on every other standard the DR250 is untouchable. I've run them side by side, played with levels and eq. A DR250 will bury an Otop 1x pretty quickly. I've had DR250's next to Omni 10's , Omni 2x10's, Otop 1x12's, Otop 2x15's, WH10's, and sundry assorted mfg boxes.

If I hadn't already started my DR250, this would have surely put me over the edge.



(into starting one that is)

[drihanek]

Ok so now I am thinking the DR250's is the way to go, except the some of the build photos people have posted do look harder - mainly the rounded ply. (As a side note many of you all are awesome woodworkers). I've read so many good reviews about the melded arrays, I would just like to know why everyone is recommending the CD's for my boxes. I feel like I am missing a piece of information because I haven't seen many build photos with the CD's. Also I know I haven't read all the forums on the cite but could someone help direct me to a place where I could read more about how to understand speaker specs. and what kind of specs are most important to Bill's designs. For my trial set I am thinking about using cheaper drivers (go ahead abuse me but my economy is not out of recession yet) to convince the money people to go all out.

Thanks all.

[DJPhatman]

Ok so now I am thinking the DR250's is the way to go, except the some of the build photos people have posted do look harder - mainly the rounded ply. (As a side note many of you all are awesome woodworkers). I've read so many good reviews about the melded arrays, I would just like to know why everyone is recommending the CD's for my boxes. I feel like I am missing a piece of information because I haven't seen many build photos with the CD's.

I am sticking to my original suggestion of DR200s. IMHO, the DR200s are just a cleaner, tighter-sounding cabinet over both the OT12 and the DR250. This is what I am after, and if you are too, build a small fleet of DR200s.

Also I know I haven't read all the forums on the cite but could someone help direct me to a place where I could read more about how to understand speaker specs. and what kind of specs are most important to Bill's designs.

Seek out forum member "Sydney" posts in the "Educational Links" forum topic. He has posted and linked to other sites that will teach you just about anything you want to know about speakers, and audio in general. Sydney is the man when it comes to the technical side of audio.

For my trial set I am thinking about using cheaper drivers (go ahead abuse me but my economy is not out of recession yet) to convince the money people to go all out.

Don't do it. To build a DR200, in USD, $156.84 each, from www.speakerhardware.com, plus plywood, dampening and finish. This is spec'ed with the Beta 8, 16 piezo melded array, no handles, NL4 Speakon, 250V woofer filter, and the piezo filter. Total of parts for 4 cabs - $642.16 You would pay more than this for a pair of middle-of-the-road commercial cab!

This is a killer system that would shame commercial offerings at 10X the price.
Yes, the DR line is a more difficult build. But not so much that you should not build them. Follow the plans, as they are written for woodworking noobs like a lot of us. Read them until your eyes want to pop. Read them until you build the DR in your sleep. Then work slowly, one or two steps at a time. If you get frustrated, walk away! Don't sweat minor miss-cuts, as PL will fill in some pretty big gaps. Most of all, relax and have fun!

[Rick Lee]

My observation on T48 vs. T39: I first built T48's for the band and they blew us away with the quality/volume of sound. After several gigs decided to sell those just to see what the T39s sounded like (and to help pay for our DR200s). I have to say I am absolutely amazed w/ the T39. We used a cheaper 12" at 24"width and I find it hard to believe at how good the sound quality is. The T39s go plenty low enough- they sound very rich, low and tight. Like you've probably read elsewhere the biggest trade-off T48 to T39 is low end, but the T39 has plenty for band use. After hearing both, to me the T39 has the biggest "bang for the buck".

[drihanek]

BW - Good page. Would you say the T48's are as tight as the T39's or does the T48's have a more boomy rumbly sound (I am thinking particularly in the bass guitar range), and which would you say is more punchy in the kick drum area? Also, do you use any BFM tops right now?

Phatman - Do you run the 200's for live sound or dj events only?

Ok, I could get ripped for this but can the 250 be built with a 3012 HO? And can the T39's be built with a 3015 LF? Just curious.

I think I'll have to save my allowance another month and buy the whole cd, but in the mean time I must learn all I can.