Kick Drum EQ questions

[Mark Coward]

I have not had good results using the Beta 52 on a "virgin" kick head. I've often re-tuned kick drums, usually drummers have them tuned too low for mic'ng. Also, even with a hole in the resonant head it can need tightening up. It's looseness can affect the tone and decay.

[Scott Brochu]

I have not had good results using the Beta 52 on a "virgin" kick head. I've often re-tuned kick drums, usually drummers have them tuned too low for mic'ng. Also, even with a hole in the resonant head it can need tightening up. It's looseness can affect the tone and decay.

How would you mic a virgin bass drum? with the mic straight up or pointed right at it?
I have tried it but like you say it affects the tone.

[Ron K]

For live use or studio?

[Mark Coward]

I prefer to use a hole to mic the kick, there may be a good way to mic a full head kick I just know that I couldn't get a good sound with just a Beta 52. Perhaps it was due to the drum tuning & muffling too.

[Scott Brochu]

For live use or studio?

Live. I have no studio experience

[Ron K]

For live use or studio?

Live. I have no studio experience

I'm not saying it can't be done. It most likely can but I doubt it's going to sound very good well tuned or not.Maybe in a low volume situation like Jazz or Classical but at that point I'd probably opt to just run vocals in the PA and let the drums all acoustic.

I've had drummers show up and expect me to do it on a kit live but the results were less than staggering to say the least. What I did was 1 front (batter side)_and 1 back (resonant side) with the resonant side switched out of phase.Batter side on a boom with a shorty base.It sounded OK but there was no way to get a lot of gain even with gating. The shell resonance was unbearable and quite boomy so the gate earned its money that day Even a well tuned Kick I don't think would have sounded very good at high levels this way.Between both Mics I could make it acceptable but nothing to write home about.The rest of the kit ran away in the mix.

I've never seen a National Kit on a big stage without a hole. Ever!Not Country , Rock or anything in between.Not to say noone does it.I've never seen it.

On a sound stage or studio I think I would go ambient (good condenser mic or 2)and get the room and mix that with close mics on front and back. Then remix to a good sound. I've noticed in studio situations it pays to experiment with placement if you have the time.You would be surprised what you can come up with.

Live I just don't have the time to spend on a drum mix. If it takes me more than 3 mins to set Qs on a kit I'm probably drunk or doing something very wrong.I find Vocals the hardest and spend more of my time there than anywhere. Drum mixes are fairly easy after you get a good system down.

Good tuned Kit
Decent Mics
Good placement of Mics
Dont try and over EQ
Good Drummer

and your good to go!

Kick , Boom Booom Boom Snare crack crack, Top racks one after the other Floors, Hat, Overheads when hitting crashes and rides done!


......and remember: If it ain't tuned well you wont fix it. There's no magic mixer or processor except maybe a DM5!

[Ron K]

I prefer to use a hole to mic the kick, there may be a good way to mic a full head kick I just know that I couldn't get a good sound with just a Beta 52. Perhaps it was due to the drum tuning & muffling too.

Mark FWIW I have a Beta 52 and I really dont care for it either. I have a D112 and it's very good for hard rock where the drummer kicks hard.Otherwise I use either a Senheiser421 or believe it or not a Shure PG52. I'll use the PG before the Beta.It just takes less Q to make it work. I used an AudixD6 I believe it was .I liked it as well. Quick and very little Q needed.The Beta 52 just has too much 120-500 cycle junk to contend with.The PG and Audix both peek nice at 70 Hz with a decent drop in the low mids.The senheiser has a variable Low Freq roll off EQ that is switchable.It still requires EQ but it's very rider friendly.

Of all the above the D6 or PG52 would be my preference then the D112.I dont like the Beta52 at all!

[gdougherty]

I prefer to use a hole to mic the kick, there may be a good way to mic a full head kick I just know that I couldn't get a good sound with just a Beta 52. Perhaps it was due to the drum tuning & muffling too.

Mark FWIW I have a Beta 52 and I really dont care for it either. I have a D112 and it's very good for hard rock where the drummer kicks hard.Otherwise I use either a Senheiser421 or believe it or not a Shure PG52. I'll use the PG before the Beta.It just takes less Q to make it work. I used an AudixD6 I believe it was .I liked it as well. Quick and very little Q needed.The Beta 52 just has too much 120-500 cycle junk to contend with.The PG and Audix both peek nice at 70 Hz with a decent drop in the low mids.The senheiser has a variable Low Freq roll off EQ that is switchable.It still requires EQ but it's very rider friendly.

Of all the above the D6 or PG52 would be my preference then the D112.I dont like the Beta52 at all!

Try a Sennheiser e902. Better than the D6 in my book.

[screamersusa]

Throw the kick into a compressor/gate. Gate the damn thing to get some control over the feedback.
Try cutting about 220-250 pretty deeply, push the 80 up a touch (as that mixer has 80, my Sountracs has 60)
What you may not get is the pleasurable angry distortion tone double 18's make if you're using horns.
A little 2:1 compression might help tighten it up a touch.
Those 4 channel behringer units are cheap and great for tossing bass, kick, snare, and unruly keyboards through while reserving your nicer compressors for vocals.

[jeffbabcock]

With no hole in the front head the only thing I have seen work well with loud acts is the May internal mic system. There are a couple bigger name acts I am aware of that use that setup with kicks with no hole in the resonant head. Still wouldn't be my first choice unless it's for Jazz or similar where you want that extended boom with a lot of sustain.

FWIW My kick mics of choice are the Audix D6 or an EV RE20 depending on style. The Beta52 is nowhere near the top of my preferences.

[sstillwell]

AKG D112

Inside the drum, a fist's width from the batter head, just slightly off center, pointed at the spot where the beater hits the head.

Gate it, then turn it UP. Plenty of click, lots of thunder. Dial in a LITTLE low end on the channel strip if you need to, but you probably won't. Cut mids as needed...400 usually has to go now, bye-bye.

Given a well-tuned and powered PA, this will crush chests.

Scott

[dheafey]

Mic is fine. Start with kick tuning. Look online for good tuning guides. A good kick sound for micing is not necessarily what sounds impressive unmiced. Kind of flat, unreverberant and flappy as I recall.
What's the venue?

+1,000,000!!! Very sage advice. It took a while for myself and our guitarist to convince the drummer that his whole set will sound dead un-mic'd but like cannons when mic'd. Once he deadened his set (taped pieces of towel to the bottom heads), the ringing disappeared and we didn't have to gate as much. We then did the same for the kick behind the front head AND put pillows in the kick drum. There's a hole in the front head, so we actually lay the kick drum mic (AKG D112) on the pillows, facing the beater. We also worked hard to find the "resonant" spots on this outside head and put the towel pieces there. Loosening/tightening (tuning) that head was part of it, too.

I'm a believer that the kick is one of the most important pieces to get right when running a band through the PA. It drives the overall sound, IMO. Whenever we make a change to the PA (new subs, etc...), we setup the PA and have the drummer bring his kick drum over, mic it, and spend hours listening to thump...thump...thump... Drives my wife nuts, but it's a good way to get it right.

[Sydney]

just run vocals in the PA and let the drums all acoustic.

For the bulk of small venues, I have found that to be the best solution. Outside or in a an auditorium that's different. It's hard to convince today's drummer that micing is not always necessary or good in a bar or club.

Live I just don't have the time to spend on a drum mix. If it takes me more than 3 mins to set Qs on a kit I'm probably drunk or doing something very wrong.
...
Kick , Boom Booom Boom Snare crack crack, Top racks one after the other Floors, Hat, Overheads when hitting crashes and rides done!

That is precisely how I saw it demonstrated last fall at a local festival. Set up, call to drummer round the kit.

[Tom]

Having read the posts, I'll throw this out - a poor drum sound can't be improved at the mixer or in a processing rack - no matter how many people line up to tell you otherwise.

I've read recipes which promise to make a distorted chest thumper out of a wet, cardboard-boxy sounding kick drum. This also explains why so many people need to have huge kick drum stage monitors. If you remove the resonance, punch, projection, and other desirable qualities of a properly tuned drum, the band members will need drums in the monitors as a result. This is over-used IMO.

I'll recommend this recipe - which works for me and sounds great through BFD horns. Powerful and clean.

Start with a lively, punchy kick drum sound source, tuned high enough to get a real tone out of the drum. Select heads to control resonance. Aquarian sells a variety of SuperKick batter heads ranging from SK1 (lightly mufled/EQ'd) to SK4 (highly muffled and EQ'd to give a dead sound) if you don't want to do it the "old-fashioned" way with felt strips and plain heads of various weights (REMO's Diplomat, Ambassador, Emperor, etc.)

Select a mic capable of handling the source material. A kick drum creates a high SPL sound, and a kick drum mic needs to have BOTH a large diaphragm AND a quick response. Sennheiser e902 is a good example IMO. Add good micing technique - available in the Sennheiser manual and through other live sound training.

None of this helps if you've got a "bury-the-beater" drummer - poor technique IMO.

You may as well slap a trigger on a 2 x 4 and replace the kick drum entirely if you're planning to build a kick drum sound in the effects rack when basic drummer, drum tech, and sound tech skills are lacking. Conversely, the combination of quality tuned drums, expertly set up, played and mic'ed with good technique, and minimal processing of the signal will produce what we're all looking for - a natural, resonant drum sound from the PA.

Finally, if you've never had a direct interaction with a kick drum, how can you know what it should sound like through a PA? Sitting on my drum throne, I feel the kick drum all the way up my legs and into my spine. No "chest-thump" but plenty of "ball-sack vibration" for that matter.

[Scott Brochu]

"ball-sack vibration" for that matter.

No need to get personal