Crossover Component question

[AntonZ]

It may be done at the mixer, but it would be set only in all scenes that are currently in the mixer. Who will make sure gets set in every new scene from now on? The rate at which they are currently burning drivers, my guess is the investment in hardware limiters will pay off within reasonable time. Four channels of limiters is not too bad. Not even talking about the avoided future downtime and hassle for each newly burned driver.

[Bruce Weldy]

It may be done at the mixer, but it would be set only in all scenes that are currently in the mixer. Who will make sure gets set in every new scene from now on? The rate at which they are currently burning drivers, my guess is the investment in hardware limiters will pay off within reasonable time. Four channels of limiters is not too bad. Not even talking about the avoided future downtime and hassle for each newly burned driver.

I don't disagree with any of that at all. The good news is that they build new scenes off of a Master scene and then save that. So, new scenes should be good. Only issue would be if someone built a scene from a scratch.....less likely, but certainly possible. The bands that play there regularly have scenes set up, so those would have to be set. I'll pose the question to 'em and see what they want to do.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

We're talking about setting the limiter at the mixer. The amps are old school with no DSP. So, the only place to limit without adding gear is at the output of the board.

So add gear, namely a limiter, placed at the amp. Set it and forget it, no matter what the level of the signal into it the amp will never exceed the safe output voltage. Or keep replacing drivers.

[Bruce Weldy]

We're talking about setting the limiter at the mixer. The amps are old school with no DSP. So, the only place to limit without adding gear is at the output of the board.

So add gear, namely a limiter, placed at the amp. Set it and forget it, no matter what the level of the signal into it the amp will never exceed the safe output voltage. Or keep replacing drivers.

Oh, I understand the concept.....I do that on my own rig.

After my last post, it hit me that I think they had some dbx166 units that they used to use for gates. May have to see if they are still hanging around. That might be a good option. It would still be a giant PITA to install 'em in the downstairs rack. It's bolted to the floor and close to the wall. And some of the amps are connected with molex inputs instead of xlr.....not sure about the monitor amps though.

I'm old, my back hurts, and I don't stand on my head very well anymore.....and that's kinda' what it takes to work on that rack.

Might be possible to locate them at the mixer, but if I remember - some of the aux out xlrs were frozen in the back. We couldn't get 'em out when I was cleaning things up and hitting everything with DeOxit.

This whole install could use a makeover. Ten years ago, I would have tried to get 'em to do that. Now, I just fix what they break and give 'em the best advice that I can.....and sometimes they take it.

The owner did spring for a new crossover and the 3012HO. Should have the monitor back up and running next week.

[Seth]

...It would mean that I'd have to go down there with a voltmeter and a cable so could check the voltage at the stage while someone else sets the limiter...

A handful of ways to do it. For situations like this, we don't necessarily have to get a voltage read on it. You could simply play a recorded song, stand on stage, control the X32 with your tablet or phone and adjust the volume up to what you'd consider a maximum, perhaps when distortion is unreasonably present, then adjust the compressor/limiter threshold down until it starts to indicate it's engaging. Maybe pull it down an extra dB or two.

Although, just turning down the amps in the basement might be the better option given the level of reliable system management available at the venue. A couple Driveracks, even better.

[Bruce Weldy]

...It would mean that I'd have to go down there with a voltmeter and a cable so could check the voltage at the stage while someone else sets the limiter...

A handful of ways to do it. For situations like this, we don't necessarily have to get a voltage read on it. You could simply play a recorded song, stand on stage, control the X32 with your tablet or phone and adjust the volume up to what you'd consider a maximum, perhaps when distortion is unreasonably present, then adjust the compressor/limiter threshold down until it starts to indicate it's engaging. Maybe pull it down an extra dB or two.

Although, just turning down the amps in the basement might be the better option given the level of reliable system management available at the venue. A couple Driveracks, even better.

Yeah, after I wrote that, I realized I could do it with and iPad on stage. Truth is, as you may have gathered by now.....I really don't want to mess with it. But, I'm anal - so there's a good chance that I will. We'll see.

[Bruce Weldy]

Bill, is it still a good rule of thumb on speakers like this to limit them to half of the program thermal rating?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

That's what I'd do. It's only -3dB from the theoretical maximum output.

[Bruce Weldy]

The crossover and the speaker came in Saturday. All was installed on Sunday morning.

While I was pretty sure that the OEM speaker was an Eminence Beta 12, now I'm pretty sure I was wrong. A Beta 12 and a 3012HO mounting hole distances are essentially the same.....these holes were quite a bit farther apart. So, I had to rotate the speaker, drill holes and install with screws instead of the bolts and T-nuts that were already there.

But, it's all working like a champ.

[Seth]

I had a thought about this system today. The price of the Behringer XR18 has recently come down to below $500, new. Depending on how many monitor channels the venue has, it could be a less expensive route to achieving separate undefeatable speaker management solution compared to a couple Driveracks. Rack the XR18 in basement, set it, and forget it.

Just a thought.

[Bruce Weldy]

I had a thought about this system today. The price of the Behringer XR18 has recently come down to below $500, new. Depending on how many monitor channels the venue has, it could be a less expensive route to achieving separate undefeatable speaker management solution compared to a couple Driveracks. Rack the XR18 in basement, set it, and forget it.

Just a thought.

Not nearly enough board for what all they do.......they need a surface that's accessible all day as they play music through the system all day long. It's a restaruant/bar. The staff can understand pushing up a fader that's labeled.....trying to teach 'em software ain't gonna happen.

Unless you mean to plug the monitor outs from up top into 4 channels of the Xair, the route each one to the monitor amps. I could do that, but the level of complexity for everyone else would be a problem if there was ever a problem.

I put out the possibility of using the dbx166 units that I think are around there.....neither of the interested parties responded to that. We'll see.

[Seth]

Yes, the thought was to use it purely as a budget friendly substitute in leu of a stack of Driveracks, in the case that they were running 4-8 monitor mixes. Something the venue staff never sees, has no idea it exists, that you/venue doesn't have to worry about managing or loosing presets/scenes/snippets in the X32, and is there purely to protect the drivers and apply basic preliminary corrective EQ pre stage monitor amplifiers... not to act as a mixer. No mixing. Just taking advantage of it's input and output DSP.

[Bruce Weldy]

Yes, the thought was to use it purely as a budget friendly substitute in leu of a stack of Driveracks, in the case that they were running 4-8 monitor mixes. Something the venue staff never sees, has no idea it exists, that you/venue doesn't have to worry about managing or loosing presets/scenes/snippets in the X32, and is there purely to protect the drivers and apply basic preliminary corrective EQ pre stage monitor amplifiers... not to act as a mixer. No mixing. Just taking advantage of it's input and output DSP.

That's a solution for sure. It's one of those "if they already had one, I could make it work" situations. For the price of one of those, I could get two used driveracks. That would handle 4 mono outs (that's what I do in my rack).

[Seth]

Yes, the thought was to use it purely as a budget friendly substitute in leu of a stack of Driveracks, in the case that they were running 4-8 monitor mixes. Something the venue staff never sees, has no idea it exists, that you/venue doesn't have to worry about managing or loosing presets/scenes/snippets in the X32, and is there purely to protect the drivers and apply basic preliminary corrective EQ pre stage monitor amplifiers... not to act as a mixer. No mixing. Just taking advantage of it's input and output DSP.

That's a solution for sure. It's one of those "if they already had one, I could make it work" situations. For the price of one of those, I could get two used driveracks. That would handle 4 mono outs (that's what I do in my rack).

I agree, it would only make sense if they were running more than 4 monitor mixes.

I'm happy to hear your cab fix has done the trick and is sounding good. Well done, Bruce!

[Bruce Weldy]

I'm happy to hear your cab fix has done the trick and is sounding good. Well done, Bruce!

Thanks, but it's no big deal. Install a crossover and a driver. Been doing that for years.

It would be interesting to do a side by side with the other monitors to see how the 3012HO compares. I'll ask the soundguy there to give it a listen and let me know.