BillFitzmaurice.info

This pic is for the welding table and jigs. I didn't plan on using this for woodworking, It sure makes things easy and square tho.

unkycraig wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:41 am ...or does the signal no favors by running through more component hoops...

There's absolutely no favorable reason to use the passive crossovers with the system configuration you have. Personally, I would not bother with them and I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the people here would agree. You only need to run a bi-amp system and the Driverack will handle all the signal needs.

Have you looked into some of the newer digital mixers at all? They offer a lot of bang for the buck. Tons of signal processing on every input AND every output. EQ, compression, gates, lots of useful FX... literally a huge rack's worth of gear all in one little unit. Worth a look. I've only used the Behringer XR18 and Midas M32C which operate nearly identically to each other and I really like them. Although, QSC, Soundcraft, Mackie, and a few others exist and have similar functionality.

I have a very strong recommendation for you... Given your time constraints, build a pair of SLA Pro's instead of the DR250's. You can build them in a weekend and they'll perform very well. Save the DR build for a time when you don't have to rush. Parts express is backordered on the drivers, but Amazon has them in stock. Looks like the 9 KL3010LF's they had in stock 5 days ago have sold. If you wanna go the SLA route, I'd order eight Alpha 6a's today, before they sell out too.

Seth wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:37 pm
There's absolutely no favorable reason to use the passive crossovers with the system configuration you have. Personally, I would not bother with them and I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the people here would agree. You only need to run a bi-amp system and the Driverack will handle all the signal needs.

I agree, but I'd correct the semantics a little..... bi-amping is typically the term used when you use two amp channels to run the woofer and tweeter in a single cab. Splitting the tops and the subs would more correctly be called a two-way system.

I'd also say that DRs are going to outrun T24s all day every day unless you build a hell of a lot of 'em. A 1 to 1 ratio ain't gonna' work.

Seth's proposition to build SLAs to run with T24s is a good one.

Bruce Weldy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:45 pm

Seth wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:37 pm
There's absolutely no favorable reason to use the passive crossovers with the system configuration you have. Personally, I would not bother with them and I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the people here would agree. You only need to run a bi-amp system and the Driverack will handle all the signal needs.

I agree, but I'd correct the semantics a little..... bi-amping is typically the term used when you use two amp channels to run the woofer and tweeter in a single cab. Splitting the tops and the subs would more correctly be called a two-way system.

I totally agree. I should have used the correct term, but chose to use the verbiage he used instead.

unkycraig wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:41 am But then folks tout the benefits of Bi-amppin', Tri-ampping? I thought I'd have to get 3 different levels of amps for the various stages of the freqs. Do they not use the passive XO's in the cabs when the drive rack is in the system?

The Driverack will send the low signal to the sub amp and the mid/high signal to the mid/high amp. The subwoofer wont need a passive crossover. Although, the mid/high cabs will/do use a passive crossover to keep the mids out of the tweeters and highs out of the mids (usually. Some designes do not have a low pass filter for the mids, such as the SLA Pro.)

Bruce Weldy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:45 pmI'd also say that DRs are going to outrun T24s all day every day unless you build a hell of a lot of 'em. A 1 to 1 ratio ain't gonna' work.

Seth's proposition to build SLAs to run with T24s is a good one.

With the amps he's using... he'll have surplus on both highs and lows. Plenty of power for the SLA Pro's.

On a 1:1 sub:top ratio, DR250's would only need about 15 watts to keep up with a T24 running 375 watts. So, yeah... DR's will waaaay outrun T24's

There's ten KL3010LF's available from an ebay seller. Free shipping.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264662852366?c ... 1&mkcid=28

A lot of those sellers do not have them in stock. Their websites are traps for back orders. I call everyone first now. I just got some Delta II 2510's outta New York. Still have $ $ tied up in a 4 driver order from Speakerhardware.com.

You read my mind about the easier speaker route.

Still building the DR250s. I was just about to order the plans for the Omni top 12, now Im looking at the SLA PRO. They are both about the same difficulty to build and both rate an 8 on performance.

I also have these EV TL806 bass-reflex design 12inch driver boxes. They have EVM 12L drivers in them now. Guitar speakers mostly. It might just be the cheapest route to just get some Eminence 2512s for those 806s. I could throw together a crossover for them and steal 8 tweeters from the DR250 parts pile. I could tape 4 on top of each and have a fake Omni top12.

Interested in the SLA PRO smaller 2 driver model. Wondering how they stack up against the 12inch Omni. With the amps I am running I don't think they would mind running a four speaker SLA and the Tuba 24s.

Dang, choices...I'm better with just one plan. So the options are:

1 My homemade TL806, must build 2 crossovers, and add a horn to the top or a melded goldwood tweeter bundle. Least amount of work.
2 SLA build, 4 or 2 drivers per cab. Not sure of the need or output of the four over the two driver model.
3 Omnitop 12, I would just get plans and build. not sure which cab here. Smaller is good for moving around. I do have to fill a hall with sound for maybe 200+

SLA 4 driver cabs???? Omnitop 12 ??? i wonder which will work with the Tuba 24 the best. I'm going to find a nice corner to park these subs in so those Mains are going to be all by themselves.

Ha, I just saw a few members and BILL trying to get me to not tag on old posts. I would love to start new threads. I have a few more questions for other topics. I have only seen the "NEW TOPIC" button once. I keep scrolling thru menus. I can't find the dang button. So I tapeworm onto old threads. Any clues to a fresh post routine? Computers are not a big part of my life, thankfully. I talked politics too, which I won't do again. I'm off to a bad start. A least the build went great.

Thanks for all the help!

unkycraig wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:09 am A lot of those sellers do not have them in stock. Their websites are traps for back orders. I call everyone first now. I just got some Delta II 2510's outta New York. Still have $ $ tied up in a 4 driver order from Speakerhardware.com.

You read my mind about the easier speaker route.

Still building the DR250s. I was just about to order the plans for the Omni top 12, now Im looking at the SLA PRO. They are both about the same difficulty to build and both rate an 8 on performance.

I also have these EV TL806 bass-reflex design 12inch driver boxes. They have EVM 12L drivers in them now. Guitar speakers mostly. It might just be the cheapest route to just get some Eminence 2512s for those 806s. I could throw together a crossover for them and steal 8 tweeters from the DR250 parts pile. I could tape 4 on top of each and have a fake Omni top12.

Interested in the SLA PRO smaller 2 driver model. Wondering how they stack up against the 12inch Omni. With the amps I am running I don't think they would mind running a four speaker SLA and the Tuba 24s.

Dang, choices...I'm better with just one plan. So the options are:

1 My homemade TL806, must build 2 crossovers, and add a horn to the top or a melded goldwood tweeter bundle. Least amount of work.
2 SLA build, 4 or 2 drivers per cab. Not sure of the need or output of the four over the two driver model.
3 Omnitop 12, I would just get plans and build. not sure which cab here. Smaller is good for moving around. I do have to fill a hall with sound for maybe 200+

SLA 4 driver cabs???? Omnitop 12 ??? i wonder which will work with the Tuba 24 the best. I'm going to find a nice corner to park these subs in so those Mains are going to be all by themselves.

I haven't built any OTop's so cant say for sure. But, looking at the design, I've got to imagine it's a slightly longer build than the SLA Pro's. Bruce has built both, perhaps he'll share his opinion in the matter.

Subjectively, a 10dB increase in volume is considered twice as loud. Every doubling of cab's in an array or stack of subs net's an increase of 6dB. So, a 4x6 SLA Pro will have 6dB more output potential than a 2x6 SLA Pro. I'd only consider the 2x6 an option if you intend to use them in relatively small venues.

Generally speaking, the 4x6 SLA Pro, OTop12, OTop8, and DR200 all have about the same output potential. Other than the dimensional differences, the functional difference between all the options is the amount of power required to produce a specific output.



Looking at the chart above, it looks to me the DR200 and OTop12 traces roughly average about 105dB with one watt, measured at 1 meter. The SLA Pro looks to be about 100dB, also 1W/1M.

Every doubling of power increases the output by 3dB. Two watts?.. add 3dB. 4 watts, and another 3dB. 8, 16, 32... Say you're at 100watts, how much power would it take to increase output another 3dB? Another 100watts, 200 total.

So, if you wanted 125dB at 1 meter, the DR200 and Otop12 would require 100 watts. Because the sensitivity is 5dB less with the SLA Pro, it'll take 316watts to match the output.

The SLA Pro is a bad ass design. It's just not quite as sensitive as the horn loaded cabs. Although, at 100dB, it's no slouch compared to commercial offerings that are typically 95-97dB and require twice the power or more to match the SLA's output... 650ish+ for the example above.

It's mostly due to the time constraints and deadline that I recommend the SLA Pro. They will do the job very well. They just require more power than the other options. But, with the amps you've chosen, you have more than enough power for any of the designs you're considering anyway.

Two 4x6 SLA Pro's and 4 T24 would be a decent little package. A side benefit to the SLA is they are a little less intrusive and tend to block less audience stage viewing area.

If you find the KL3010LF's in stock somewhere, I'm fairly certain Leland can cancel the order and refund you. I'm also convinced that, if Amazon says something's in stock, they're in stock (short of errors in their inventory). When I posted the link for the Alpha 6's yesterday they didn't have a coutdown on the number left, but it now states there are only 18 left. If you want to go the SLA Pro route, you'd better scoop them up before they're gone.

unkycraig wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:29 am Ha, I just saw a few members and BILL trying to get me to not tag on old posts. I would love to start new threads. I have a few more questions for other topics. I have only seen the "NEW TOPIC" button once. I keep scrolling thru menus. I can't find the dang button. So I tapeworm onto old threads. Any clues to a fresh post routine? Computers are not a big part of my life, thankfully. I talked politics too, which I won't do again. I'm off to a bad start. A least the build went great.

Thanks for all the help!

You have to go to the board index, then select the appropriate sub-forum. Once in the sub-forum, the "new topic" button is on the top left.

Seth wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:32 am If you find the KL3010LF's in stock somewhere...

I just messaged the seller whose link you shared, Seth, and not only did they say they have them in stock, they messaged me back within literally one minute- probably a very professional business.

Rich4349 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:27 am

Seth wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:32 am If you find the KL3010LF's in stock somewhere...

I just messaged the seller whose link you shared, Seth, and not only did they say they have them in stock, they messaged me back within literally one minute- probably a very professional business.

Nice Rich! Go team!

I figured they actually had them. Their estimated delivery date was 5-7 days... it's kinda hard to specify a delivery date within the next week, if they're not actually in stock. (and the sellers rank is 100%)

They also appear to be $5 less than everywhere else too. $20 could certainly go toward something else to make it less painful to buy... Duratex comes to mind.

Craig, if you are in a time crunch, try a pair if 4x6SLA and a pair if 2x6SLA. Add a pole mount in top and bottom of each which would allow 2x6 or 3x4 or 2x4 or 2x2......enough rig fir the gig.

Seth wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:34 am

They also appear to be $5 less than everywhere else too.

I noticed that too and it makes me believe that they are NOT an Eminence dealer. Their advertised price is below MAP and that is against the dealer agreement. I'm guessing they are someone who buys up stock from various businesses and re-sells. That's fine unless there is a problem with a driver.

It's fine for a dealer to sell at any price they want - just can't advertise it. So, I would ask them whether they have a return/replacement policy should one show up DOA.

Fortunately, of all the Eminence drivers that have passed through me, I've only had one guitar speaker show up dead.

Bruce Weldy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:11 am

Seth wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:34 am

They also appear to be $5 less than everywhere else too.

I noticed that too and it makes me believe that they are NOT an Eminence dealer. Their advertised price is below MAP and that is against the dealer agreement. I'm guessing they are someone who buys up stock from various businesses and re-sells. That's fine unless there is a problem with a driver.

It's fine for a dealer to sell at any price they want - just can't advertise it. So, I would ask them whether they have a return/replacement policy should one show up DOA.

Fortunately, of all the Eminence drivers that have passed through me, I've only had one guitar speaker show up dead.

Perhaps. Although, looking through their other Eminence offerings, the rest of them are the same as everywhere else. My guess is it's a clerical error. Suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask though. They have 3300 listings, all music related. No oddball random stuff like a liquidator usually has.

EDIT: Correction... I kept scrolling through their products and I did come across a few random products. So, who knows? I'd just ask them if they're an authorized dealer, if it's important to you.

unkycraig wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:29 am I have only seen the "NEW TOPIC" button once. I keep scrolling thru menus. I can't find the dang button. So I tapeworm onto old threads. Any clues to a fresh post routine?

For me the New Topic button shows near the top left whenever I am browsing any particular sub forum.
E.g. if I am on the following page:

Tuba and Titan Pro-Sound Subwoofers

Then it sits in the top left corner, just under the crumb trail "Home > Board index > Do It Yourself Speakers > Tuba and Titan Pro-Sound Subwoofers", just left from the "Search this forum..." box.

See below: