Wedgehorn 10 Review

[Bruce Weldy]

I've always had problems with SM58's feeding back. I know that they are the "standard" vocal mic, but it does not make me want to throw them at the wall any less.

Amen.....

[Dave Non-Zero]

but it does not make me want to throw them at the wall any less.

Amen.....

It's screamo bands throwing mine about that pisses me off.

[Haysus]

Bass player uses a brand new Audix - I think it's one of the OM models, supposed to be like a 58. That's where most of the trouble is. I'm checking which model, but it looks like they all are hypercardioid.

The OM series by Audix is what I use all the time. Huge gain before feedback rejection.Way better than a SM58. More clarity IMO.
If your bass player is more than 3 inches from the mic it will barely pickup a signal. Are u having to boost his gain more than before?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Bass player uses a brand new Audix - I think it's one of the OM models, supposed to be like a 58. That's where most of the trouble is. I'm checking which model, but it looks like they all are hypercardioid.

The OM series by Audix is what I use all the time. Huge gain before feedback rejection.Way better than a SM58. More clarity IMO.

+1. And if you're using different mics that's a problem, as they have different responses and won't all EQ the same.

[Bruce Weldy]

Bass player uses a brand new Audix - I think it's one of the OM models, supposed to be like a 58. That's where most of the trouble is. I'm checking which model, but it looks like they all are hypercardioid.

The OM series by Audix is what I use all the time. Huge gain before feedback rejection.Way better than a SM58. More clarity IMO.

+1. And if you're using different mics that's a problem, as they have different responses and won't all EQ the same.

Bass player is right on the mic. Settings are same as before when I was using the Yamahas (obviously not the 31 band on the monitors). The Audix always would feedback before mine, but it's much worse now.

Unfortunately, some people just run out and buy a mic without trying it first. The answer I got was - "it's just like a 58!" To which of course I answered - "58s suck!" I've always preferred condensers for vocals.

I've had to EQ the monitors for his mic. By the time I get rid of the feedback - the vocals are buried, and we aren't at stupid volumes.

Bottom line is that nothing new has been introduced to the set up other than the monitors. I'm sure there is a sweet spot in there somewhere, it's just eluded me so far.

[DJPhatman]

Have you diagnosed it down to this one particular mic? You said previously you have

2 vocal mics.
Bass and guitar run direct
Kick and toms are triggered.
Snare, hat, OH mic'd.

I am guessing that you mean over head mics. could they be the problem? Are you running a single mix for everybody? Is the guitar pickup too hot?

[Bruce Weldy]

Have you diagnosed it down to this one particular mic? You said previously you have

2 vocal mics.
Bass and guitar run direct
Kick and toms are triggered.
Snare, hat, OH mic'd.

I am guessing that you mean over head mics. could they be the problem? Are you running a single mix for everybody? Is the guitar pickup too hot?

No hat or overhead in the monitors. It's coming from the vocal mics without question.

I think I need to find another old PL77 to match mine and make him use that.

But, I'm still trying to figure out how to make the vocals sound good and the guitar at the same time. When I drop some mids to make the vocal less honky, the guitar sounds really bad.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

But, I'm still trying to figure out how to make the vocals sound good and the guitar at the same time. When I drop some mids to make the vocal less honky, the guitar sounds really bad.

You'll have to use the individual channel EQs to address that issue. To some extent you can do the same to match the mics better. But the place to do so isn't a gig, it's somewhere you can take the time to fool with it.

[guitarkeys.com]

Bruce,

I would approach this in a little different way and not try to attack the guitar portion until I got the speaker flat. Not worried about the monitor staying flat, but it's a good starting point to ensure all of the frequency contect in present and there aren't any stray peaks that may be causing the feed back, but are not the overriding tone.

We are quick to blame the poor guys mic, but we've all run 58s and everything else under the sun without feelback problems so I'm not quick to point fingers at a mic. That comes into play a monitor levels in my personal opinion you should not be running for fear of ear damage. I just don't picture you as a cranked band trying to squeeze every last db out of your stage monitors.

All that into consideration, we did have a brilliant local bar that put a "stage" in a concrete hole. Concrete sides, back, and top. There is no cure for feedback in an area like that. They are not in business anymore.

Good Luck,

Jamie

[more4me]

In the latest issue of Live Sound : http://www.livesound-digital.com/liveso ... zm4K0K#pg1
There is a article about small consoles. He suggests using two channels with a Y-cable for vocals. One for FOH and the other for monitor. This way you can eq and handle the same input way different. May be worth a try if you have enough channels on the console.

[Bruce Weldy]

In the latest issue of Live Sound : http://www.livesound-digital.com/liveso ... zm4K0K#pg1
There is a article about small consoles. He suggests using two channels with a Y-cable for vocals. One for FOH and the other for monitor. This way you can eq and handle the same input way different. May be worth a try if you have enough channels on the console.

That's an interesting approach, but would require more channels than I have available.

As to Bill's suggestion of channel EQ, the EQ on the two vocal mic channels aren't very much different as we both have similar voices. Problem I see there is anything I do on the channel strip affects FOH - and that is most important to me.

I know 58s are industry standard. My bass player was using one before he bought the Audix. If I mic was going to feedback, it was the 58 - so nothing's changed. However, the real problem is that we had all that in check with the Yamahas. The change to the WH10s have just re-introduced feedback into my life. And getting rid of it has made the monitors sound like crap for vocals.

It's going to boil down to finding the right EQ curve to make it all work. I was able to make 'em sound pretty dang good in my garage with my old Peavey head with a 9 band EQ on recorded music. I've got to get it figured out soon - my boys are losing confidence in 'em.

At this point, it looks like my plan is to kill all the reverb in the monitors. Make sure the drummer's monitor position is good so that none of it is making it's way back to the offending mic and keep trying to find the right combination of EQ to make it work.

In the meantime - I'm on the lookout for an old EV PL77 or 76 to see if matching my mic will help some.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Josh Duke]

Any mic with a hypercardioid or supercardioid pattern is going to have great rejection from the sides. Putting a wedge at 180 degrees (directly behind the mic) will cause all kinds of feedback. Give the wide dispersion of the WH, you may have to play with placement a bit more, but definitely DO NOT put a wedge at 180 degrees with a hyper/supercardioid mic. Better placement will require less EQ. If you're on a tight stage, maybe just run a wedge for the drummer and use the other two WH for side fills. They'll be pointed at your ears while simultaneously pointing at the spot your mics will reject the most sound.

[Bruce Weldy]

Any mic with a hypercardioid or supercardioid pattern is going to have great rejection from the sides. Putting a wedge at 180 degrees (directly behind the mic) will cause all kinds of feedback. Give the wide dispersion of the WH, you may have to play with placement a bit more, but definitely DO NOT put a wedge at 180 degrees with a hyper/supercardioid mic. Better placement will require less EQ. If you're on a tight stage, maybe just run a wedge for the drummer and use the other two WH for side fills. They'll be pointed at your ears while simultaneously pointing at the spot your mics will reject the most sound.

That's not something I ever knew, but I was kinda' wondering about that when I was looking at the polar pattern of his mic today. I noticed that it seems to have a hot spot at the back. Is that what helps with the side rejection? Kinda' the way a figure 8 pattern works?

[crackbass]

One thing to consider, (not sure of your pa set up) are you aux feeding your subs? When I first started running my titans I was having major problems in some rooms. I had the low cut filters engaged on the mic channels and experimented with the eq extensivly. Nothing would work. After I aux fed the subs and put only kick and bass through them it was like magic. I had waaaaay more monitor volume available. I also didn't have to eq the monitors near as much, and they sounded better to boot. After three or 4 mics on stage rumble from subs will cause all kinds of problems unless you bypass the subs completely from everything that doesn't need it.

[Bruce Weldy]

One thing to consider, (not sure of your pa set up) are you aux feeding your subs? When I first started running my titans I was having major problems in some rooms. I had the low cut filters engaged on the mic channels and experimented with the eq extensivly. Nothing would work. After I aux fed the subs and put only kick and bass through them it was like magic. I had waaaaay more monitor volume available. I also didn't have to eq the monitors near as much, and they sounded better to boot. After three or 4 mics on stage rumble from subs will cause all kinds of problems unless you bypass the subs completely from everything that doesn't need it.

Thanks for the idea, but none of my problems are with the sub-120hz material. Plus, we V-plate the subs down on the floor below the 3 foot tall stage. It's really just a vocal mic issue. And we've only got two open mics on stage that are in the monitors (plus a little snare).

I've got a little time to keep working at it until we play again. Hope I can get it figured out.