Newbie Here

[djtrumptight]

Hi all,newbie here and boy do i have some questions,but i will ask them on the proper boards.I must say,out of all the years i have been using the internet,this is the most valuable web site i have ever stumbled upon.I found this site by searching Youtube videos for subwoofers.I was actually looking to see Cerwin Vega subs(i know,i am now ashamed at the money i was looking to spend for some back breaking subs that i know i couldnt move by myself).I am a DJ,currently using Cerwin Vega v-35 x speakers.After doing alot of reading on these boards,i became curious about bi amping and after 10 years i bi amped my Cerwin Vegas and OMG the sound is unbelieveable!The thing is,as far as a subwoofer,all i have is an EV eliminator 18" single cab subwoofer.It all sounds ok as long as i bring along 2 platforms i made to set the Cerwin Vega's on.Anyway,im looking to lighten my load with all BFM speakers.From my research on the boards,i see that the Tuba 30's would be my best bet as a DJ,as they go down to 30hz which will reproduce recorded music with the lowest lows but for some reason im leaning towards the titans,i cant help it.Maybe because i keep picturing my CV's sitting on top of them,which is NOT how i would operate them.Meanwhile what im currently using is a behringer compressor/limiter,DOD crossover(approx.100 hz),Peavey 2000 amp to power the lows(built in DDT compression and 40 hz filter used),a rmx 850 to power the mid/hi's (bi amped).I also have a USA 1310 amp which i want to use to power the subs i build.I believe its about 400 watts per channel @ 8ohms which would be enough to power the 3015 lf driver of the Titans.So thats where im at right now.My future plans are possibly to become an authorized builder.I live in Detroit,i know most of the DJ's here so a revolution is about to start in this area.I am also gonna go with the 250's for tops,im canning the CV's.Yes i wanted the 300's,i cant lie,i like the look,the design,but its not about that,its about sound quality for my gigs so im following the advice thats been given but is there any 300 build pictures on the boards?At this time i dont have many questions but i do have a few:
1)ATTN:JCMBowman,where do you find Baltic Birch in this area ? I refuse to use anything else.
2) where can i find dampening material
3) is there any diagrams anywhere that shows how speakers are connected to amps when 1 amp is pushing numerous speakers per side in stereo?
4) i am still using the passive crossover built into the Cerwin Vega's,i know i need to bypass that but i havent yet.Does this present any danger to my gear ?
5) lastly,im not gonna be disrespectful and ask if i can use this driver or that driver when Bill has done extensive research on his builds but i did have a thought,has anybody ever built Titans and put the handles and casters on the side ?That would be really convenient in a few ways for transport but hell,after bumping CV's up my basement stairs for over 10 years i will gladly pick the Titans up over my head.Thanks for listening all and thanks in advance for any feedback.

[Turntablist]

What will you mostly use your system for?
How big is the biggest crowd and how small is the smallest crowd that you plan to handle?

To answer you questions:
#2 Rip any foammatress into pieces.
#3 Find out the impedance of the speakers that you use, find out how low of a load your amp can handle and then follow Ohm's law.
#4 No. But if it sounds better and you have the amps and don't mind hauling another amp, then why not bi-amp?
#5 In the narrowest versions you might not be able to mount the handles and castors on the side but otherwise I suppose you could. The T48 in it's original design is just as wide as deep though so I don't see any benefit of putting the handles and castors on the side, at least on the original T48.

[DJPhatman]

Djtrumptight, hello and welcome to the forum.

1) The least expensive place near Detroit to obtain real Baltic Birch is www.toledoplywood.com . JCMBowman obtained his from People's Lumber @ 7 Mile and I-75, but paid twice as much for each sheet. Worth the trip, but call them first with your sheet count.

2) Meijer's. I just bought 4 @ $8 each. Get the cheap Meijer brand. BTW, foam is used in the mid-high cabs only.

3) Why are you running stereo? Search "ohms law" and "impedance calculator" for easy answers.

4) No danger to your gear, just your ears! Passive sounds like crap once you have heard a well-tuned active bi-amp rig.

5) Build T48's over T30's. T48 goes as low as T30, but kicks T30's ass above 40 Hertz, or the "chest thump" range. On the first cabinet build, follow the plans exactly. Use the premium driver, 3015LF for the T48, work slow and steady, and take LOTS of pics! We love seeing cabs being built, and we are usually good at spotting errors or issues before it's too late to fix them. I highly suggest you buy the kits from www.speakerhardware.com , and DuraTex, too. Build the T48's first, as they are a very straight forward build. DR250's are a very time consuming build, but worth it. For a mobile DJ set-up, you might want to think about 2 or 4 DR200's. This was the route I was headed, for small, lightweight and scalable. YMMV.

[jcmbowman]

Heh - Looks like Phatman covered what I was going to say. Almost to the letter.

ToledoPlywood for sure. Public Lumber on 7 Mile if you're in a pinch and can't get down to Toledo.

Skip the T30s - Go straight to the T48s.

Feel free to look into becoming an authorized builder, but Tim Ard is very close by, and from all reports he does -phenomenal- work.

Oh yeah - welcome to the forum! and welcome to the BFM addiction. We're slowly building up a good selection of Detroit area BFM junkies. I think at some point we might have to reserve a section of Belle Isle and have everyone bring their rigs down for a shootout/show.

And DJPhatman - as far as running stereo - when you do primarily electronic shows the stereo imaging is critical. Not that many people pay attention to it, but the ones that do will raise a HUGE stink if you run mono for one of these shows.

[djtrumptight]

Hi all,thanks for the feed.
Turntablist: i will mostly be using this set up for DJing,mostly events over 500,no more than 1000.I would also like to have a big enough setup(s)eventually to do set ups for other DJ's who may have a big gig but not enough sound.as far as my bi amping situation,i am using an active crossover,but my Cerwin Vegas have the built in active crossover,which i havent bypassed.As far as the side handles,that was my misunderstanding of the dimensions,24 x 24 is 24x24,i was picturing a different speaker.

DJPhatman:thanks for the info,Toledo is only about an hour away so i think i will be taking that trip and buying enough wood for all the projects i want to do right now.
Also thanks for the heads up on the foam.
I am running stereo as that is what i prefer.i can see mono on some subs,but not my top end,i need that stereo.
it will be T48's,plans to be followed exactly,3015 lf drivers,i will be buying Bills kits on speakerhardware.com as well as duratex,casters,etc.
I will post pics,step by step and possibly a youtube video.
One question though,wouldnt i be better off to just build DR250's to keep from having to upgrade to them later ?

JCMBowman:Im not going to be stepping on Tims toes,i wouldnt do that.Maybe i can send him some business or do business through him as im sure other DJ's are gonna want some as soon as they hear them and see my amp only turned up about 40% of the way.As far as the shoot-out,man,that would be nice,maybe by summer we can make it happen.
ok fellas,im off to study up on ohms law,i will keep the board posted on my progress.

[RubiconProSound]

...and yet another DJ here who will tell you to go with the T48. (even though you're already headed that way.)

I already have T30's and I'm in the process of switching to T48's.

[Turntablist]

One question though,wouldnt i be better off to just build DR250's to keep from having to upgrade to them later ?

Yes you would. I'd load them with 2510s and melded arrays. I'd suggest 8 cabs. Don't rush the build, build a lot of jigs and then go to work. Build one first and then build the other 7 simultaneously after that.

As for subs, how big subs do you mind carrying? You could build 8 16" wide T39s and cross them over at 35hz at full power or you could build 4 T48s and cross them at 35hz at full power. (35hz is all you'll need IMO.) The stacks are roughly the same size, the T39 stack can put out a bit more noise thanks to more powerhandling but the T39 stack is also more expensive.
If you don't mind bigger cabs and want to save some dough choose the T48. If not, choose the T39.

[SeisTres]

As for subs, how big subs do you mind carrying? You could build 8 16" wide T39s and cross them over at 35hz at full power or you could build 4 T48s and cross them at 35hz at full power. (35hz is all you'll need IMO.) The stacks are roughly the same size, the T39 stack can put out a bit more noise thanks to more powerhandling but the T39 stack is also more expensive.
If you don't mind bigger cabs and want to save some dough choose the T48. If not, choose the T39.

-1 on the t39 recommendation.

Remember he want it for DJ use and must have that extension which the t39 sometimes cannot deliver. Also, in order to get down to 35hz, you would need ALL of the 8 cabs ALL the time, if you took less, you wouldn't have that extension if you wanted to run the all full throttle. And dont forget the bigger displacement of the 15" drivers is crucial for the frequencies down low. I have analysed a bunch of music and while 95% does not even get to 40hz there is that special songs that reach all the way down to 30hz which the t48's will get if you add cabs or run them below RMS ratings. And dont forget the t48 have a steep rise right around 60hz which you will need for that "thump". In your case, the extra weight and pack space of the t48's is definitely worth it.

[djtrumptight]

Im going T48'S,all the way.My goal is to eventually have (4) T 48'S and (4) tops,most likely 250's and i think that should hold me down for awhile personally.What im attempting to do is not waste any time building something that i wanna upgrade later,i may as well do it right the first time,with all the best reccommended drivers.For now,2 T48'S and 2 DR250'S WOULD BE A DRASTIC IMPROVEMENT over just a single pair of CV 35-X's which i use alone most times,just set them up on the platforms i built and it works out,so u all can only imagine what one set is gonna do for me.what im looking to do is build the best single top to go along with each T48.Again,thanks for the input fellas.

P.S. where are the photos of these incredible rigs of 8 T 48'S and 8 DR 250'S etc.??

[Turntablist]

In order to get down to 35hz, you would need ALL of the 8 cabs ALL the time, if you took less, you wouldn't have that extension if you wanted to run the all full throttle.

If he can't bring 8 just bring 4 of them and give them half the power, then he can still use them to 35hz. The T48 is not recommended to be driven with full power at 35hz in stacks smaller than 4 so if he brings two he would have to give the drivers half the power to be able to use them to 35hz. So either way he's got to give them half power and cross them at 35hz. The T39s will make more noice thanks to more powerhandling.

And dont forget the bigger displacement of the 15" drivers is crucial for the frequencies down low.

Since my recommendation were 8 T39s or 4 T48s the drivercount is 2:1 and then the drivers in the T39s actually has the biggest displacement.

I have analysed a bunch of music and while 95% does not even get to 40hz there is that special songs that reach all the way down to 30hz which the t48's will get if you add cabs or run them below RMS ratings.

If you set the crossover for a speaker at 35hz it doesn't mean that the speaker is dead silent below that. With a 24db slope at 35hz i estimate that the soundlevel will be cut by ~5db down to 30hz. That is still useful. IMO it isn't worth it to carry around a rig that has the ability to hit 30hz when you very seldomly use it, especially since even the T39 goes lower than most of the cabs used at any place out there anyways, the T39s will give everybody a new experience and nobody will definately not beat you up if you miss out on a frequency that nobody didn't even know existed. However, if you V-plate and limit the 8 T39s at 300w they will hit 30hz anyways..

And dont forget the t48 have a steep rise right around 60hz which you will need for that "thump".

The T39s will be very equal in that range sensitivity-wise so the T48 hasn't got an advantage here.

At all these above points the T39 ties or wins. If price isn't an obstacle then I think the T39 should be his choise.

[SeisTres]

At all these above points the T39 ties or wins. If price isn't an obstacle then I think the T39 should be his choise.

True, these point are all valid. But this is the way I see it, if 16" 3012lf t39's are not an absolute requirement, why even bother with them at all? For just a tad bit more of pack space, weight and money, he can build the 18" t48's 3015lf(or wider). And I agree with you completely, 4 t48's would be no match for 8 t39's, but if you compare them to 8 t48's 3015lf, then the t48's would come out on top. IMO, the only time the 3012" should be used is if portability is number one priority and you're going to building at the slimmest size, other than that, the 3015lf cabs win(the exception being the wide t39 3012lf for live use).

[djtrumptight]

Im gonna go with the T48's as Bill didnt recommend the T-39 for DJing.Besides,im cool with the size of the T48's.Im sure that in time 4 T48's and 4 tops will get the job done. My Cerwin Vega's are 41.5 x 24.25 x 21.75 and if i stack them im sure i can get 4 in my van if i need to with room to spare.Thanks again.

[Turntablist]

My Cerwin Vega's are 41.5 x 24.25 x 21.75...

And those are your TOPS?! Oh my god... One of those are actually bigger than TWO DR250s! Get ready for a bunch more noise when you upgrade your tops.. And better horizontal dispertion, narrower vertical dispertion and less weight.
You are in for quite some experience mate!

[djtrumptight]

Yes those are my tops that i use standalone alot,i just put them up on platforms that i built and i'm good.I can imagine the treat im in for,which i will keep in mind throughout the process of building.I just placed my order for plans,auto tuba,sla home theatre,table tuba,DR 250 and T 48's.I plan on going to Toledo tomorrow morning to pick up baltic birch,by then i should have some plans but im not gonna start cutting until i read the plans,then re-read the plans,then read them again.After that i may put a mattress in the garage,to sleep on when im not building.As for now,im off to study more on Ohm's law.Later.