How to place condensers to mic a marching band

[djbamm1]

I have a gig coming up on the 12th of September at a Historically Black College Football festival. This year I have been asked to add reinforcement to the battle of the bands which will be performing on the field after the game and performing a couple of songs during halftime. I have 8 condensers, 8 channels of gating, EQ and compression but dont have a clue in how to mic this thing as they will be moving but in one general section of the field. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[moo]

You need some shotgun condenser mics like this one: http://www.studiospares.com/Mics-Shotgu ... nvt/409941
And decent windshields on like these: http://www.studiospares.com/Windshields ... nvt/405790

I have used these Items working outdoors with an opera company, moving around a large stage.
They work verry well at capturing the noise you want, and ignoring the noise you dont.
I have tried doing the same gig with cheaper gear, and it just doesent work.
Spread them arround the perimiterof the area, preferably 3 foot or so above head height, pointing into the middle. You will have to use your judgement/ budget as to how many. Route all of these mics into a stereo subgroup and insert a pair of compressors on that group. Set them at a high ratio, and a level that is triggered when someone gets to close to a mic, or points the horn of thier trumpet straight into one etc. This will help to mitigate against players being too loud if they get close to one of the mics and even out everones level.

With standard omni or cardio patern condensers, you will get hardly any of the bands sound in the speakers before feedback. You need to use good quality shotgum mics for this event. With quality mics like those above, you don't need much E.Q. except to compensate for environmental influences on the sound (Ground/wall reflections).

Unfortunately, quality gear like this is eyewateringly expensive:
In the U.K they are £600 each including the windsheilds, and you will need between 4-8 to cover the area you need.
That makes £2400-£4800 or $4000-$8000 to buy a set to meet your requirements.
If this is a one off event for you, and not a 30 date tour, then hiring from a T.V. Productuion supplies company would be the only ecconomically viable way to mic this event.

If you want a reputation for good sound quality, then you have to use good quality mics.
This is a difficult gig to re-inforce, even using the best gear available.
Inappropriate mics will make it almost imposible to get any level in the speakers, and get you a reputation for sh!te sound.

Mark.

[djbamm1]

Thanks for the reply I had arranged to use the shotguns from a rental shop around did not give the windscreens much thought tho thanks for that also would these have to ran overhead as I was thinking or just placed high and aimed from the sideline as this cannot interfere with the actual game.I have to make this a success as I used to get support from a larger company here in town. But now I am a competing factor and I have kind of been blackballed on tech support but that is why we have the internet.

[moo]

Whilst I was editing my post to explain what I did with the compressor setup in my opera gigs, you replied.
It sounds like you are on the right lines.
If you can suspend the mics above the area, then you can get away with using less mics, which will sound better.
With multi mic setups you will hear phasing comb filtering effects (sounding like everone is playing through a flanger), as performers move from one mic to the other.

Mark.

[Sydney]

Subject to your time line and DIY skills...
You may want to consider making directional microphones with a parabolic reflector ( many plans and ideas on the web ).
Or a modern version of what was called a "sound-sipper" - a mic. made directional with tuned tubes ( orig. soda straws ).

[djbamm1]

I did not know about the phasing when they move from mic to mic is that anything that the gates could help. I mic bands but this is something new to me as I or none of my techs have done this before. I may try to get some subcontract help or just try to outsource that part of it all together. I have to make a decision by Thursday as I had won the bid but if I screw it up it has far deeper effects on my business . I will try to gather some more info and decide if this is something that I can tackle effectively but maybe you guys can line me out a little more. As that does not look good winning the bid and then backing out of a commitment. Also they are only letting me bring my Tubas as the DR's were not accepted so I have to use my KF850's darn those heavy bastards!

[moo]

Thinking about it, the phasing is only really apparent with a soloist moving arround the stage from mic to mic in the dialogue parts of the show. In the chourses, there is so much volume spread over the area on stage, it is not noticeable.
With a marching band 'wall of noise' as the source, phasing should not be noticeable.
If you have booked decent shotgun mics for hire then I would go ahead with the show. It won't be as difficult as you think.
Do you have plenty of extra long mic cables to get round the perimiter of the area?
I presume these marching bands will be fairly loud, so headroom before feedback should not be a problem?
Your only issue is covering the whole area in which they are playing, and balancing the coverage of the mics with their field paterns to avoid dead spots.
Your best bet is to spread them evenly around the area, and get them up fairly high if possible.
Its difficult to say exactly where to put them without seeing the location.
You obviously have to balence beween getting them close enough to pic up, and far enough away to even out coverage and not create hot spots.

Good Luck.
Mark.

[bgavin]

Hell would freeze over before I exposed my condensers to the outdoors, dust and other debris.
Syds Big Ear is worth considering.

[moo]

The AKGs we use for the outdoor opera are built like tanks. Most are still going strong after 10 years including 2 tours in the heat, dust, and monsoon of Africa, and 2 summer tours in the heat and dust in Spain and dubai.
We had a couple of casualties last year due to the British damp misty murk that was laughingly called summer last year.

We have now persuaded the opera to go over to radios, and covered stages.
No more hairdryer-ing Rycote softies and condensers at 3.00 am in hotels and hoping they are dry enough work the next day!

Mark.

[gdougherty]

I'll interject and posit that if you can put a compressor across each individual mic instead of a subgroup, you'll be better off. You want an individual mic to back off when someone gets too close, you don't want that individual mic backing off everything in a subgroup as well. Be careful with bands and gating. I've had what I thought were reasonably set gates that cut down on stage chatter and page turns between pieces without cutting out the performance until the concert band I run FOH for did a piece with some large dynamic swings. Marching band, you're less likely to run into that, just be careful with them. I'd set them just high enough to keep the average background noise off.
Now that I've got a digital mixer with gates and compressors on every channel I've been learning a lot of these usage lessons the hard way in pretty short order.

[moo]

I'll interject and posit that if you can put a compressor across each individual mic instead of a subgroup, you'll be better off. You want an individual mic to back off when someone gets too close, you don't want that individual mic backing off everything in a subgroup as well.

I agree.

[djbamm1]

Came up with a solution not what I had hoped but it will get me through. I have a friend who is giving me a good deal on his services 20 plus years orchestra and touring FOH experience and a Yamaha M7-V2 plus shotgun condensers for 850 so basically I will bring racks and stacks and still come out like a bandit I am playing it safe on this one.