Gauss and the 5 string T39

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Gauss
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:35 pm
Location: Michigan

Gauss and the 5 string T39

#1 Post by Gauss »

Since I just started using my T39, I'll give an initial impression review and add supplements as I gain experience with it.

I started this project a long time ago with a skilled woodworker friend. It's a 23" inch wide (to match my combo amp's width) with a 3012LF (we changed from a BP102 once this came out). We got to sealing the second side and then he was unable to set aside blocks of time to have me over, so he worked on it little by little until two nights ago when he had me come over for the final touches (electronics and access panel) and then today I picked it up painted with casters on.

We tested it in his basement, pre-finished, and I thought something was wrong. I could hear highs even though there was a passive crossover. I hooked it up to his home theatre and didn't hear any thump. I was a little disappointed. We A/B'ed it with the subwoofer from his surround sound, and I noticed a real difference. The T39 was almost invisible -- the bass from the radio station we were listening to came from nowhere. No honk, just clear low end. I don't think I've heard clear, harmonic-free low-end before. We plugged in the theatre sub, and yep there it was, the obvious source of lows (and higher up thumps). I changed back and walked around, and the bass was more apparent the farther away I got (around corners, away from the highs) as I walked back I could hear that it was still there, just not distorting the box and making itself obvious. I understand now how people can buy the myth about horns being louder farther away from the speaker. The bass is everywhere, but there's no kick/thump/honk made by the box itself.

Today I went back with more equipment to test the crossover and my bass and amp to give it a test run. Sure enough, the crossover was working, but it sure isn't a brick wall. The frequencies above 120hz keep coming, helped by the natural ease that speakers can make them loud. At about 500hz, it's much quieter, but I can still hear 2khz sine waves. I put my combo amp on top and played. After all the sine waves, hearing a natural sound made it sound great. All the vents and the floor above were shaking. We took it outside and I played on the deck. It was like outdoor concert level (though, I was standing right next to it.) The amp head was buzzing pretty bad, making it hard to hear the lows. (I could still feel them!)

Since I've got it home, I tried it outside again, having fixed the rattling head and with more time to pay attention to tone. It's fantastic! The sub seems to add none of it's own character. It still sounds like my amp, but without the farting or distortion I had when I pushed it too hard. Playing my b-string is great! It doesn't quiet down or change the harmonic/fundamental proportion, it just keeps going lower at the same volume. I have to EQ down the lows to compensate for the difference between the combo's speaker and the T39.

I've got a couple outdoor gigs coming up where I'll be using this (usually my combo is enough) and I'll review it more then. I plan to put duratex on it when I finish my DR200s, but for now it's been primed and painted with a mix of rustoleum flat black and gloss black. The mouth braces were left off by mistake, but we'll add them when it's time for duratex.
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Last edited by Gauss on Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AudioFlyer DJ: DR200 & Titan39/Titan48
BASS: Combo Amp & Titan39

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Tom Smit
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Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#2 Post by Tom Smit »

Hey man, that's splendid! Can't wait for you to try it live.

By the way, I see the one cable coming from your amp and going to the T39, but where is the cable going to that is coming from the T39?
TomS

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Gauss
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Location: Michigan

Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#3 Post by Gauss »

I run the output of the amp to the T39 on the left (which sends the lows to the sub) and the high-passed signal comes out on the right, back to the combo's speaker jack.
AudioFlyer DJ: DR200 & Titan39/Titan48
BASS: Combo Amp & Titan39

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#4 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

What you're hearing is what a sub is supposed to sound like. You shouldn't be all that aware of its presence when you have it, but really aware when you don't.

djtecthreat
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Location: Worcester, MA

Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#5 Post by djtecthreat »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:What you're hearing is what a sub is supposed to sound like. You shouldn't be all that aware of its presence when you have it, but really aware when you don't.

When I ran my 3 T48's at one time, my buddy was there, and I had the system at mid volume, and he said "are the subs even on, I can't hear them thumping" so I muted the sub channel and he was like "wow, I see now".

Bass is non-directional and should engulf the area with low end, unlike tops which are in your face. This has been my understanding.
DJ TecThreat
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Sydney

Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#6 Post by Sydney »

Bass is non-directional
Humans have the limitation on locating bass directions; Bass can be directed and shaped.
Obstacles much smaller than the bass wavelengths have no appreciable effect on it.

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Tom Smit
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Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#7 Post by Tom Smit »

Gauss wrote:I run the output of the amp to the T39 on the left (which sends the lows to the sub) and the high-passed signal comes out on the right, back to the combo's speaker jack.
OK, I get it now.
TomS

la malta
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Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#8 Post by la malta »

I personally think it looks cooler without the mouth brace, but I can only imagine it's probably a more important piece then some of the other braces.

Sydney

Different Tuba but still...

#9 Post by Sydney »

I wouldn't omit it...
After my T24 was assembled, and before my 2 final braces were finished and inserted, I played it.
With the braces installed the bass was tighter and more solid.

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Gauss
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Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#10 Post by Gauss »

Okay, first outdoor gig down. The bass carried very well across the parking lot. I didn't get out there, but our mixing help said it sounded clear and good 150 yards away. What that means exactly, I don't know. My problem was overheating. At first, I had master volume on the combo cranked to 10. I wouldn't have pushed it but my audience advisor kept telling me more bass. After 2 songs the amp went into protect mode. It was a hot day, and I've had the problem before when I ran the amp high. The fourth song in, our crown amp running the mains overheated and went into protect mode. So, we turned it down all around. We were trying to get too much out of our system for sure. Would I have liked more volume? Yes. Was this adequate? I think so. I didn't have a good reference in the crowd.

I was thrilled with the tone. I have always liked my amp, but this time it was...overdriven :wink: with a some growling. I tried to see if I could get a clean sound by using my solid-state channel (instead of the tube preamp), but the power amp seems to have been adding a touch of distortion in the mids. I wondered if it was a problem with the T39, but it doesn't seem to exist when I play music through it. Maybe it's from pushing too hard, or running above 8 ohms, but it sounds good, I can't complain. Hopefully it's not something damaging.
:fingers:

The low end for my b-string is still shocking me. It's so natural and seamless with the other strings. For the heavy songs, I didn't want to quit the lowest notes, there was so much power. This show wasn't my proudest moment as a performer, with the three of us having only met three weeks prior for a one-time show that included over ten original songs. However, despite looseness in transitions, lots of improv and amateur stage presence, I think it was our sound that won us compliments and a new gig.
AudioFlyer DJ: DR200 & Titan39/Titan48
BASS: Combo Amp & Titan39

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jcmbowman
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Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#11 Post by jcmbowman »

Gauss wrote:Okay, first outdoor gig down. The bass carried very well across the parking lot. I didn't get out there, but our mixing help said it sounded clear and good 150 yards away. What that means exactly, I don't know. My problem was overheating. At first, I had master volume on the combo cranked to 10. I wouldn't have pushed it but my audience advisor kept telling me more bass. After 2 songs the amp went into protect mode. It was a hot day, and I've had the problem before when I ran the amp high. The fourth song in, our crown amp running the mains overheated and went into protect mode. So, we turned it down all around. We were trying to get too much out of our system for sure. Would I have liked more volume? Yes. Was this adequate? I think so. I didn't have a good reference in the crowd.
I ran into this same problem last weekend, so I have to ask you: what was your power source? Did you have adequate power to drive everything, or were you running off one or two really long extension cords plugged into a 15-amp circuit, or perhaps an underpowered generator? The show I did was poorly organized to the point where they had no power for me until an hour past start time, and when they did bring power it was a decrepit 5000watt coleman that sounded like a moped with a broken choke and a fouled spark plug. My power kept fluctuating between 95 and 115 volts, never actually reaching a proper 120, so the amps were working extra hard in the 86 degree heat. I was barely able to run my cabs at 100watts per.

Thank goodness for extremely efficient horn-loaded cabinets!
Low End Junkie for over 20 years.

4 DR250s
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2 ATs
...and a very serious addiction to the smell of BB sawdust and curing PL.

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Gauss
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Location: Michigan

Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#12 Post by Gauss »

jcmbowman wrote:I ran into this same problem last weekend, so I have to ask you: what was your power source?
Okay, this was opposite of usual. The two guitars and electronic drums ran direct, and I ran through my amp. :mrgreen: My amp and the guitar heads were on one long extension cord in one door of a school building, and the power amp for the mains, along with the power amp for the monitors, were on another extension cord running into another wing of the building. The amp to the mains would cut out, wait a couple seconds and return, but the monitors stayed on. My amp cut until restarted (and cooled), but the drums, and guitar heads stayed on. The power amp was in the sun, and both were under a canopy that, while providing shade, somehow turned the stage into a sauna.
AudioFlyer DJ: DR200 & Titan39/Titan48
BASS: Combo Amp & Titan39

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#13 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Gauss wrote: My amp and the guitar heads were on one long extension cord in one door of a school building, and the power amp for the mains, along with the power amp for the monitors, were on another extension cord running into another wing of the building..
And that was the source of the problem. Long extension cords mean voltage drop, voltage drop means increased current, increased current means more heat. You might get away with extension cords provided they are 12 gauge and each amp has its own to the building. Otherwise, faggedaboutit.

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Gauss
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Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#14 Post by Gauss »

All right, second outdoor gig down. We had power problems again, but of a different nature, the PA (we had a sound crew) kept tripping the breaker, until we started up a generator. Downside was our monitor amp stopped working - no monitors. I didn't turn up as loud this time, since I was playing a soccer-field sized area instead of a high-school parking lot. I had a trusted ear in the crowd, and he walked around to get a feel for the sound. He said the bass sounded great, and he checked (put his ear in front of it and behind it) to see if it was in the PA, and it was in there (slightly), but the sound he was hearing was coming from my cabinets.

I love the light weight of my T39, everyone who runs to help me lift it says, "wow, this thing is light." The huge sound I can get is fantastic, and it's spoiling me - I don't want to leave this home when I'm playing with a capable PA, or in a small venue.
AudioFlyer DJ: DR200 & Titan39/Titan48
BASS: Combo Amp & Titan39

gdougherty
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Re: Gauss and the 5 string T39

#15 Post by gdougherty »

Gauss wrote:All right, second outdoor gig down. We had power problems again, but of a different nature, the PA (we had a sound crew) kept tripping the breaker, until we started up a generator. Downside was our monitor amp stopped working - no monitors. I didn't turn up as loud this time, since I was playing a soccer-field sized area instead of a high-school parking lot. I had a trusted ear in the crowd, and he walked around to get a feel for the sound. He said the bass sounded great, and he checked (put his ear in front of it and behind it) to see if it was in the PA, and it was in there (slightly), but the sound he was hearing was coming from my cabinets.

I love the light weight of my T39, everyone who runs to help me lift it says, "wow, this thing is light." The huge sound I can get is fantastic, and it's spoiling me - I don't want to leave this home when I'm playing with a capable PA, or in a small venue.
Sounds like they were trying to get too much out of the system, or just didn't have enough power for what they brought. I love the BFM rig I run. Ran 2 T48's, 4 OT12's, and 4 WH's off a Honda EU3000 generator set to econo mode. Had several requests to turn it down, outdoors in a medium sized park because the people 200ft away couldn't talk without shouting. Reports were you could hear it clearly 3 blocks away behind FOH. For a 5 hour gig, the gas gauge on the generator hardly moved. We used maybe an 1/8th of a tank doing hip-hop pre-recorded material 3 of the 5 hours, live music the other 2. A puppet setup off to the side and at least 300ft away with a little Fender Passport system mentioned people had to strain to hear over our stage. Kinda glad I only brought what I did.

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