Omni10 23" vs 2 x J110 for elect bass.

[Harley]

Having just completed 2 J110s, I compared them to my Omni10 23" just to see what the difference is.

Pre-amble;

I have been playing bass for 38 years and played most styles and currently am in 3 different groups, again playing styles from reggae, rock, blues, ballads - you name it-we play it.

When it comes to tone, I would one of the fussiest bassists a sound-tech would ever want to have to deal with. My age is 58 and I have some hearing loss in the higher frequencies due to industrial damage.

The gear;

Eden WY550 run completely flat
Ibanez ATK 300 with Bassculture.de pup fitted - used because it is the harshest and gruntiest sounding
Fender Jazz 5 deluxe MIA - my second choice for gigs
Ibanez 35" scale BTB1005 with Nordstrand Dual Coils and Audere EQ - my 1st choice and by far the best bass I have
SX Jazz - something that sounds all right and one I take to the rougher pubs
BTB505 fretless with special bartolini soap bar humbuckers

Strings - always D'Addario and always either XL or Pro-steels.

The Cabs;

My Omni10 must be at least about 3 years old now and would have done well over 200 gigs - it's my cab of choice for most gigs because it is light, easy to handle and sounds great, although the DR250/T39 sounds a bit better - naturally.

My O10 is 23" wide. Now I want to make one thing clear here - I chose to build it this way to suit my gear. Bill has told me the difference between 23" and the normal width is hardly discernible and I take his word on that.

The J110s are just finished, have never been gigged and were broken in 24hrs with 30Hz @ 6 - 10 v

When playing the J110s, the 2 were in parallel ( 4 ohm ) - I did not play them separately.

Here's a photo - the J110s are awaiting some corners to arrive and also an expanded metal grille



If you asked me if in comparison....;

"Would you chuck out the O10 and replace it with the J110s?" - the answer is "NO, not at all."

"Did you notice the J110s noticeably deeper?" - "not to me really, it was hard to tell using both 4str and 5str basses. Other people may be able to hear the difference"

"Which one would you prefer to take to your next gig?" - "whichever is the more convenient to carry"

"If you had to choose between your O10 and 2 J110s" - "Well, I'd always have the two types and the choice would be hard, but my O10 sounds nicer to me because it's.......'richer' is the best way to describe it, but bear in mind it's been played a lot, the J110s haven't."

"Would you build the J110s without piezos for elect bass?" - answer - "Not on your Nelly! - put as many in as I did, and use a switch at the back, they add character is crispness and I certainly would not be without them? They'll help cut through the mix when you have a stroppy keyboardist!"

Opinions from the Great Unwashed;

My 20 y/o son is very fussy about musical tones so I asked him to tell me what he liked. His hearing is excellent.

With piezos off, he liked the O10

With piezos on, he was more inclined to like the J110's because "I like the crisp sound" BUT My O10 apparently has a rattle ( which I cannot hear ) at low frequencies which annoyed him a bit. When pressed, he said if the O10 did not have the rattle, he'd be taking the O10 out to a gig. Why - it sounded richer overall

Could he notice the J110s deeper than the O10...."Not really"

I got the War Office to listen and tell me which one she liked best "Aaahhhhh.....weeeell.....they all sound nice, why not just use them altogether "

My overall impressions;

In my opinion, any bassist worth his salt would be happy to use either the O10 or the J110 as at least a monitor or as backline for smaller gigs.

At times it was so hard to tell the difference, but I can say that both are nicer sounding than my O15TB in terms of tone.

I tried all basses, and a lot of 'on-bass' settings, leaving the Eden flat.

At times the J110s edged out in preference, at other times the O10, depending on which bass and what settings, but really, I was more than happy with either.

The J110s really were better with the tweeters than without - My O10 only has 4 piezos so between off and ons, the difference is less noticeable. The J110's were also slightly sharper in the mids I thought which would help on noisy stages.

In summary, these cabs ( O10 and J110x2 ) are crystal clear and respond to your playing and settings just like a Formula One car would respond to Michael Schumacher. They are light, portable and just the ticket for a busy gigging bassist who plays with savvy musos where stage sound is sensibly controlled.

They will turn heads and ears and are worth every penny they cost to build. Neither one clearly beats the other and it's almost a toss up as to which one you'd want to build.

Finally:

I turned off the piezos in the O10 and stacked one J110 with the piezos on top ( with the woofer centre-lines in line ) and WOW! That was impressive.

[Grey Owl]

Great review Harley.
Cheers
David

[Tom Smit]

Thanks for that review Harley! It really answered my question since I was considering making a pair of Jack 110's. If your still very happy with your O10, then I'll keep my 10.5's.

[Harley]

Thanks for that review Harley! It really answered my question since I was considering making a pair of Jack 110's. If your still very happy with your O10, then I'll keep my 10.5's.

Look, if you've got the cash, still builds the J110's. They do have a subtly different character according to my ears.

It is great to have both options, so don't chuck the O10s.

But if you're strapped for cash and thinking the tone is greener on the 2 x J110 side of the fence...then that's a steep fence to climb and your nuts are at risk if it is barbed wire Oh....I am talking for elect bass here...PA or DJ work may well be different.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The woofer low pass filter specified for the Jack when used with tweeters totally changes the sound of the woofer compared to the Omni, which did not specify the filter. A valid comparison of the Jack 10 versus O10 with woofer only would require by-passing the filter in the Jack. The additional low end response of the Jack isn't all that noticeable with electric bass as the source, but it is with recorded music. But that would only apply if both were 20 inch wide. The 23 inch wide option of the O10 goes lower than the standard 20 inch wide.

[Harley]

The additional low end response of the Jack isn't all that noticeable with electric bass as the source, but it is with recorded music.

Hence my tag line qualifier Oh....I am talking for elect bass here...PA or DJ work may well be different.

My J110s have the low pass filter but the piezos have only the resistor

[AntonZ]

Thanks Harley for the detailed review . Not going to bin my O10.5 just yet.

The woofer low pass filter specified for the Jack when used with tweeters totally changes the sound of the woofer compared to the Omni, which did not specify the filter.

Can you describe in what sense the woofer sound changes due to the low pass filter?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Can you describe in what sense the woofer sound changes due to the low pass filter?

It's rolled off at 2kHz.

[AntonZ]

I understand that, but have no idea what it sounds like . I will enter it in an EQ to see what it does.

[IanChad]

The additional low end response of the Jack ... But that would only apply if both were 20 inch wide. The 23 inch wide option of the O10 goes lower than the standard 20 inch wide.

So Bill, Which cab would go lower, a J110 or a 23inch O10.5? And would this be noticeable when used for electric bass?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

So Bill, Which cab would go lower, a J110 or a 23inch O10.5? And would this be noticeable when used for electric bass?

Those two should be close, but the O10 is more prone to vent chuff, as it was not designed with the intent of running to full power to 50 Hz. The vent area of the J10 is about double that of the O10.

[Mark Coward]

I turned off the piezos in the O10 and stacked one J110 with the piezos on top ( with the woofer centre-lines in line ) and WOW! That was impressive.

Good stuff Harley, thanks. Before I sold my pair of O10.5's, I wanted to try a similar setup for bass use. Both had full melded arrays, and I had top hats in each but reversed so they'd be "mirror imaged" on PA stands - one socket on the top of one cab, one on the bottom of the other. With even a short 2' or so pole between the cabs, it would put the top cab up near ear level, and run the bottom cab with tweets off.

[DaveK]

the O10 is more prone to vent chuff, as it was not designed with the intent of running to full power to 50 Hz. The vent area of the J10 is about double that of the O10.

I've run into the chuff problem with my O10 for bass. Can I add a tuning tube to the O10 vent or cut another vent to fix the problem?

[WB]

I've run into the chuff problem with my O10 for bass. Can I add a tuning tube to the O10 vent

That'll just lower the tuning. The chuff problem would still be there because the port area is still the same.

or cut another vent to fix the problem?

That'll raise the tuning.

[gerryc]

What is really needed is a larger vent area (to reduce the air velocity through the vent and prevent the chuffing), but then a duct would need to be added to bring the resonance back to where it is supposed to be (larger vent everything else equal, raises the resonant frequency, longer length lowers it). But then there would be no room in the horn for the larger vent. It could be put elsewhere in the cabinet but that change's Bill's design (I know, I looked into this myself awhile ago). He vented into the horn for a reason. Not sure how well it would work otherwise.