First outside gig with 250's and T39's

[pwfirst]

Well I am still disappointed, I was only able to turn my amps up to 3 for this outside event. We were in an outside pavilion. It was a beautiful night. Our performers consisted of #2 vocals with acoustic guitars and a bass player who used his own amp.
I set it up with the DR 250's to each side and the T39s 14 in a V in the center. The vocals were very good and clean and the guitars were very good as well. I wish I could have had the bass run through the system but they arrived late and had little time to organize everything.
Every one I talked to was very pleased with the sound. I have a Beheringer mixer, QSC GX5 amp, DBX PA, and a DBX dual mixer, I used a Beheringer Powered mixer for the #2 monitors. I put a little chorus and reverb on the guitars and kept the vocals clean and it was a good night. A very full sounding mix. One of the singers has a very full voice that I have had problems getting to sound the way he should sound, so I decreased the drive and his lows and mids and inceased his highs and the vocal balanced out just right, It use to be boomy but tonight it was just right. This is the first time I used the Audix M5 mic on him too.
I did talk to the Bass player and he was very interested in the speakers so I gave him the information on Bill's plans. He said he had been reading about them in some Bass forum that he uses.
We are now planning a true outdoors venue with more bands and and some full rock bands, maybe I can turn this baby up next time.
At around 40# each loading and unloading was not to bad for an old fat man. I am so happy I made the change to the cabs. Phil

[David Carter]

When I read the first phrase about being disappointed, I couldn't believe it, but after reading more, I know exactly what you mean. I was never really able to drive mine hard either. I expect that will be even more true for the 2nd generation rig once it's complete.

Congrats on a successful event!

[bgavin]

Do outdoor sound for kiddie bands.
You will have to drive the snot out of your rig to keep up with the stage volume.
Or do like I do... mute all channels except the screamer.
They are their own Suck button...

[SeisTres]

Do outdoor sound for kiddie bands.
You will have to drive the snot out of your rig to keep up with the stage volume.
Or do like I do... mute all channels except the screamer.
They are their own Suck button...

hey.... it's not that we do it on purpose, we just need to crank up the tubes to get all the distortion we want Not to mention the drummer just constantly smashing the cymbals.

(Yes, yes. I know. Most of us don't even have tubes in our amps because we cant afford them, but hey, at least we can always use the excuse that is sinful for the drummer to be louder than a half-stack)

I guess i'll be one of the lucky ones to drive the future t39 30" 3012lf to their max even we use them indoors

for outdoors I plan to double that

[jcmbowman]

Do outdoor sound for kiddie bands.
You will have to drive the snot out of your rig to keep up with the stage volume.
Or do like I do... mute all channels except the screamer.
They are their own Suck button...

hey.... it's not that we do it on purpose, we just need to crank up the tubes to get all the distortion we want Not to mention the drummer just constantly smashing the cymbals.

(Yes, yes. I know. Most of us don't even have tubes in our amps because we cant afford them, but hey, at least we can always use the excuse that is sinful for the drummer to be louder than a half-stack)

I guess i'll be one of the lucky ones to drive the future t39 30" 3012lf to their max even we use them indoors

for outdoors I plan to double that

Or, you could do like folks who have been doing this for 15 or twenty years and have the drummer tone it down a bit, and then have the rest of the band play at a reasonable level. You'll be able to be a lot more expressive (there's this thing called dynamic range, it's really cool!), and you'll also be able to retain your hearing intact past the age of 40.

Seriously. At a bare minimum, if you're not going to back off the levels - wear earplugs.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/ ... _fans_deaf

[pwfirst]

"What did you say" my hearing from all those years of Rock has significantly been effected . I remember the good old years, a wall of amps behind us and ringing ears for 2-3 days after a gig. Thats why I have gone to Christian Rock not quite soooo Loud. But for you young bucks, have at it. Phil

[gdougherty]

Do outdoor sound for kiddie bands.
You will have to drive the snot out of your rig to keep up with the stage volume.
Or do like I do... mute all channels except the screamer.
They are their own Suck button...

hey.... it's not that we do it on purpose, we just need to crank up the tubes to get all the distortion we want Not to mention the drummer just constantly smashing the cymbals.

(Yes, yes. I know. Most of us don't even have tubes in our amps because we cant afford them, but hey, at least we can always use the excuse that is sinful for the drummer to be louder than a half-stack)

I guess i'll be one of the lucky ones to drive the future t39 30" 3012lf to their max even we use them indoors

for outdoors I plan to double that

Or, you could do like folks who have been doing this for 15 or twenty years and have the drummer tone it down a bit, and then have the rest of the band play at a reasonable level. You'll be able to be a lot more expressive (there's this thing called dynamic range, it's really cool!), and you'll also be able to retain your hearing intact past the age of 40.

Seriously. At a bare minimum, if you're not going to back off the levels - wear earplugs.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/ ... _fans_deaf

Thanks for the link. It's a conundrum I have. How to get the bass "feel" from 95db+ without the long-term hearing damage caused by those volumes. The supposedly "normal" comfortable volume level is in the mid to upper 80's. That's great, and it is comfortable, but you've got little to no chest thump from the kick at that level. I guess the earplugs are the only way to go then.

[jcmbowman]

Thanks for the link. It's a conundrum I have. How to get the bass "feel" from 95db+ without the long-term hearing damage caused by those volumes. The supposedly "normal" comfortable volume level is in the mid to upper 80's. That's great, and it is comfortable, but you've got little to no chest thump from the kick at that level. I guess the earplugs are the only way to go then.

A good chunk of the way down on that link I posted they recommend a brand of earplugs for stage performance that allows you to hear with a bit more clarity than standard hardware-store earplugs. The brand listed is not the only one out there, but if you're going to wear earplugs as a musician, look into getting musician-grade earplugs.

That being said, I only wear earplugs at other people's events. If I have to wear earplugs at something that I'm running sound for, or performing at, then that means that every single person standing near me that is NOT wearing earplugs may be sustaining hearing damage. I just can't reconcile being a musician or a sound professional and creating an environment that causes hearing loss - it's akin to being a shoe salesman who cuts people's feet off.

Bass frequencies are less damaging to hearing than mid and hi frequencies. If you want that high-energy bass feel without deafening stage levels then mic the kick drum, and get a mic or DI on any of the other low-freq. instruments (Bass guitar, keyboard, didgeridoo, etc...), and make sure they're run through a good subwoofer. This is actually MORE important in those small venues where you don't think you need a PA, because when your audience is 5 feet away from you in a small room a loud drummer and stack of amps is more likely to negatively affect your patrons. Tone the whole thing down a bit, patch it all through a T39 or two, EQ it properly, and it will -feel- louder overall, but you'll be able to have a conversation 20 feet away without having to yell at the top of your lungs.

If you haven't noticed, this is a subject I feel very strongly about. The simple fact is that most people don't know enough to recognize when loud is too loud, and it's not fair of us as performers and sound providers to inflict damage upon them. I've gone so far in the past as to tell friends that I will not come to see their band until they either lower their overall volumes or buy enough earplugs for the whole crowd.

[Sydney]

we just need to crank up the tubes to get all the distortion we want Not to mention the drummer just constantly smashing the cymbals.

Get smaller tube amps. A very small amp can be driven into the tone ( where the crunch "stinky" harmonic distortion is being produced ) without the SPL. Blues Harp players and many guitar players do this.
A Sound Guy can make it as loud as needed, but can't drop the stage volume of a bunch of M Stacks.

The middle ear has 2 sets of muscles that tighten when exposed to SPL above 80 - 85 db and dampen the ear drum and pull the stirrup from the inner ears linkage in an attempt to protect.
This helps explain the "turn up the volume level creep up" with time,
and the ear's sensitivity threshold to damage.

[Gregory East]

I wear earplugs playing bass with very easygoing poprock outfit. The drummer isn't going nuts but when the cymbals are two or three feet off the earhole they're f'n loud. I'm already well deaf from the first couple of years I didn't bother. Really struggle to hear conversation in a bar deaf.

Wear earplugs onstage with drums.

Many drummers need learning that drums have many colours of tone and need to be played not just hit as hard as possible whenever possible.

Anyone used a Marshall Power Brake? My old guitard had one but he never used it onstage. Did I mention hearing loss? Two guitards and drummer always asking for more bass.

[gdougherty]

As much as I love accoustic drums, they do cause all sorts of problems if not reigned in. The other biggie is the guitar stacks. I've had numerous conversations lately explaining that the amp is really nothing other than a monitor and source for me to capture. Big stages are also a help to get vocalists and others away from the drums.

[AntonZ]

If you haven't noticed, this is a subject I feel very strongly about. The simple fact is that most people don't know enough to recognize when loud is too loud, and it's not fair of us as performers and sound providers to inflict damage upon them.

I hear you, couldn't agree more. I wear earplugs that I had custom made for motorcycling whenever I go to places with loud music. I've seen what impact bad hearing can have on your social life. My mother in law is not able anymore to have a proper conversation with the younger grandchildren (my kids) - they are too young to understand they have to speak up, articulate well and speak slowly in order for grandma to understand them. I'm very sorry about that, she was great with kids back in the years when her ears were still more or less working. My kids will never know her in that way. Protect your hearing while you still can. There's no way back. Hearing aids are a lousy substitute, too.

[Ozmirage]

"Feeling the Bass" retrospective
There was a strange videogame accessory that hung a speaker in a harness on your back. Allegedly you could "crank it up", feel the vibes, but not hurt your ears.
I picked up one, on clearance, for $5.
It worked. The bass was sent to it, and you could really FEEL it thump and growl.
However, pumping that much audio made one's back sweat profusely, and that is why no one has since made such an accessory for "feeling the bass"...

[Sydney]

There was a strange videogame accessory that hung a speaker in a harness on your back. Allegedly you could "crank it up", feel the vibes, but not hurt your ears.

Sound's like DIY Lithotripsy