Fastners

[Adam Schaible]

Hello,

I've only built the XF410, and I used screws to fasten it - I see a lot of talk about brads, though. I do have a pneumatic nailer that will accept 18 gauge brads, so I was considering using it.

My question though - aren't I supposed to lay a bead of glue across a joint, then fasten the joint? Will brads pull it in tight enough?

Or am I just supposed to run glue across the inside of the joint?

Thanks

[pwfirst]

Use the PL glue on the surfaces then tack in place with the brads, The glue is very strong when dried, the screws are ok too. Either sink them in deep and cover them with wood putty or Bondo or remove them after the glue is dried and fill the holes with more PL. If your cabs are to be air tight make sure the glue has oozed out on the seams. After it is dried you can remove the extra if it is in a visible spot. Most of us really like the Pl adhesive except when it gets on your fingers. Wear gloves, you can't wash it off. If I get sloppy I wait till it dries and use sand paper to remove most of it off my fingers. Good luck

[Adam Schaible]

Thanks for the reply. Cleared up almost everything - the part that's not quite clear to me is - when I fasten it with brads, I don't see the brads pulling the joint tight. Am I supposed to position my clamps in such a way that they will pull the joint tight for the brads, then just shoot them in? What I'm referring to is the extra space now taken by the PL glue in the joint. I've never used it, but I imagine it's fairly thick - or is it more of a gorilla glue consistency?

If it's gorilla glue consistency, then this is a pointless post!

Thanks

[myn]

So if I read that correctly the strategy is not to clamp but just apply glue and apply brads? As the OP mentioned. Are the brads enough to pull/clamp the pieces together?

I would have thought it went glue - clamp - brad?

[Adam Schaible]

Well the brads are kind of pointless once it's glued - I'm inferring that the glue is much thinner than expected. I was expecting a caulking like liquid nails consistency, but I'm guessing it's more like maple syrup.

[David Carter]

PL is a thick caulk-like consistency. It is not thin or runny.

I have not used brads on my previous builds because I just recently acquired a compressor and brad nailer, but my plan for future builds is glue, clamp, brads. It is my understanding that the brads just help speed the process by holding the joint in place so that you can then remove the clamps and move on to the next joint without having to wait for the adhesive to dry first. Screws may still be necessary in the case of warped plywood that needs the screw to force it into position while the adhesive cures.

Of course, as I said, I haven't actually done it (yet).

[Adam Schaible]

Ok, cool - makes sense. That could require some big clamps! Wouldn't screws also allow you to move to the next piece and remove the clamps?

[David Carter]

Wouldn't screws also allow you to move to the next piece and remove the clamps?

Yes, you are right. The main advantages of brads that I have heard are

1. they are faster than having to drill pilot holes and make sure your screws are countersunk
2. you don't have to remove the screws from the edge joints before rounding off your edges with a router
3. there's a lot less bondo work to do (filling over screw heads)

[Adam Schaible]

Ok, point taken. I have not really considered rounding the cabs corners. I suppose that's an important step!

[SoundInMotionDJ]

I use brads for (almost) all my fastening...in general I use clamps to hold the joint in place while I fire the brads. The clamps provide good squeeze out along the joints. I fire two brads in at crossing angles to form an "X" at each location. That helps the brads to resist pullout while the PL sets. Alternatively I fire brads in at opposing angles along a longer run, like when attaching the back panel of a T39 to the side. The opposing angles make the panel much less likely to pull out.

"\ / \ / \ / \ /"

For smaller pieces on DR200's and things like the access door rim on a T39, I use 1/4" x 3/4" staples to hold the pieces in place. The twin prongs provide a lot of holding power.

When I put the second side onto a T39, I do add half a dozen screws in the middle to pull the side tight to the braces. I continue to use brads along the perimeter.

--Stan Graves

[Harley]

If you are using brads, you must clamp - either by using 'clamps', screws or brute force pushing one joint hard to another.

Brads used by themselves can push a joint open in some circumstances.

Stan is right on the money about staggered angle bradding. In all nailing, unless you cannot avoid it, you should never drive a nail in perpendicular, always at a slight angle - same goes for brads.

[myn]

If you are using brads, you must clamp - either by using 'clamps', screws or brute force pushing one joint hard to another.

Brads used by themselves can push a joint open in some circumstances.

Stan is right on the money about staggered angle bradding. In all nailing, unless you cannot avoid it, you should never drive a nail in perpendicular, always at a slight angle - same goes for brads.

How long after you secure the panels with brad's do you remove the clamps?

[Ron K]

I also use brads for everything.For example: On a Tuba I build the "snail" insides on on one of the sides. brads hold all the joints. Glue up the top and install the second side. Brad nail it tight. Flip add additional brads on the opposing side. Clamp using 1" pipe clamps with 2" steel channels running across the sides. This basically clamps the entire box together in one step disallowing any pushing from the expanding poly glue. I leave it set 24 hrs then unclamp.As it stands now I can clamp up 2 boxes at a time so I tend to build them in pairs.

I also use the cross pattern method to help the brads hold.The ones on the edges are not a factor as the router cuts them with ease when rounding over. The ones in the middle I countersink with a 20 Penny nail and fill with Elmers wood filler.Trim PL with putty knife and lightly sand before finishing with roll on Duratex.

With the Tuba jigs I have I can build 4 in a week easily! I'm pushing 20 of the little SOBs as we speak! There is strength in numbers! Love the sound of these lil boxes.

[Harley]

How long after you secure the panels with brad's do you remove the clamps?

If you have enough brads in and have nailed them in at opposed angles like \ / \ / \ / then, immediately.

[DaveK]

3. there's a lot less bondo work to do (filling over screw heads)

You still need to fill the brad holes because they show through a Duratex finish. One quick swipe with the bondo spatula does the job.