T-24 complete with pics

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mzisserson
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T-24 complete with pics

#1 Post by mzisserson »

I finally completed one of the 2 T-24's (BP102 flavor) I have been working on. I have to finish up the outside and put on the black carpeting, but here are the pics, what I have learned and initial impressions.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Zoe0416/T24Build#

Impressions:
What a little beast! I paid careful attention to making sure everying was sealed VERY tight. I have to do the smoke test yet, but a raw first impression: this thing really pumps out some low tones. It is tight, accurate, and deep enough to produce any realistic musical tones a DJ will be looking to put through them. Bob Marley was tight with authority, and Limp Bizkit Was fast, deep and hard like it should be...Among many others.

... All with a 45W chip amp based, commercial subwoofer amp, hooked to a old school pioneer stereo. I cannot wait to get it on my big rig when I have 300W and proper filtering behind it. Let alone its twin, v-coupled...

The bass is "different" than other subs as stated throughout this forum, and now I understand what is meant by how you can almost anticipate the pressure at the horn mouth.

One thing I did notice it seemed "louder" with the cover off... But it was not nearly as clean, deep, and did not "throw" as far or as loudly (the decay was extremely rapid droping to a minor thump at 50' away vs. a strong, clear tone.)

What I Have Learned:

Helping someone build a BF design vs. Building it yourself is 2 different things.

"Anyone can build them" however it takes a great attention to detail, and a fair amount of time (I logged 35 hours on this one) to do if you want to do it properly.

Nothing beats a good metal rule.

Dead Rekoning is harder than it sounds.

Cutting a solid access cover plate is better than trying to piece it together.

PL is a pain...But dang is it good!

The parts express speaker gasketing you can buy in 50' rolls is a LIFESAVER. Handles very well, compresses great, adhears exellent, and is very dense.

The 1/4 wave folded horn is a great design and naysayers should be burned alive then have lemon juice thrown on them. :twisted:

Pardon any spelling errors. I am typing fast and in a rush.
T24-2
AT-1

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Tom Smit
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#2 Post by Tom Smit »

Looks good. Looking forward to a review when it is properly exercised in combat.
TomS

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DJPhatman
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#3 Post by DJPhatman »

Do not power your T24 with 300WRMS. The thermal rating for the driver is 150W, but the recommendation is no more than 1/2 that! And, a limiter is a MUST!!!! You will never hear the tuba distort until it's too late, them magic smoke! :shock:
I know money often seals the deal, but seriously, quality is an investment, not an expense... Grant Bunter
Accept the fact that airtight and well-braced are more important than pretty on the inside. Bill Fitzmaurice

Mark Coward
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#4 Post by Mark Coward »

DJPhatman wrote:Do not power your T24 with 300WRMS. The thermal rating for the driver is 150W, but the recommendation is no more than 1/2 that! And, a limiter is a MUST!!!! You will never hear the tuba distort until it's too late, them magic smoke! :shock:
The thermal rating of the BP102 is 200w RMS, and users here have reported that 150w is the apparent cutoff of power compression. 300w into his planned two T24's should be just fine.
Mark Coward

Philip Weston
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#5 Post by Philip Weston »

Very sharp-looking build! I'm surprised by how much I like the red accents.

Was just at Home Depot for a house project and was thinking "I must get started on those BFM boxes soon." Thanks for the inspiration!
You are what you do when it counts.

mzisserson
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:21 pm
Location: Rhode Island

Re: T-24 complete with pics

#6 Post by mzisserson »

Philip Weston wrote:Very sharp-looking build! I'm surprised by how much I like the red accents.

Was just at Home Depot for a house project and was thinking "I must get started on those BFM boxes soon." Thanks for the inspiration!
Thanks Phil! I highly recommend using Dupli-color spary paint enamel from an auto store. It dries ultra fast, sets AMAZING and the grain still shows through. It looks really slick. I have expiremented with may spraypaints and the duplu-color is really the best. Dries hard and durale too. That's only 3 coats I got out of 1 can with 2 coats left in the can.

The company colors are black/red, and they will be carpeted black, so it *should* look sharp.

I am using the BP102, and I like headroom. I will use a low-cut at 40Hz as well. I may have to build one, but I will definately low-cut these.
T24-2
AT-1

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RubiconProSound
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#7 Post by RubiconProSound »

Philip Weston wrote:Very sharp-looking build! I'm surprised by how much I like the red accents.
+1 I like the "Black Widow" look as well...
Built so far:
AutoTuba. TAT, T18, T30, T39, SLA, SLA Pro, DR200, Omni 12TB, Omni 12 Sub, Omni 10.5,

Ron K
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#8 Post by Ron K »

DJPhatman wrote:Do not power your T24 with 300WRMS. The thermal rating for the driver is 150W, but the recommendation is no more than 1/2 that! And, a limiter is a MUST!!!! You will never hear the tuba distort until it's too late, them magic smoke! :shock:

I've been hitting my T24s with a 275 w rms per channel amp @ 8 ohms since new (beginning of this year) and haven't had a problem yet. I have 12 of them now and the headroom from the amps along with a 48db per octave High Pass @ 32Hz keeps them running very clean down low.Limiters set at 0 db at the amp inputs.

As far as not hearing distortion goes I can fully hear when the cones bottoms in the box as it quite unpleasant of a sound.I dont run them at that level but I have pushed them until I heard it more than once. The BP102 is pretty tough for a bass guitar 10" driver and has nice bass tone when used with headroom in the signal chain.I also have T39s but I really like the sound of the Tubas for bottom end.When you use a bunch of them they really pound and sound fabulous as Aux feed subs on bass guitar and kick!
Ever since I replaced sex with food I cant even get into my own pants!

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RubiconProSound
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#9 Post by RubiconProSound »

Ron K wrote: As far as not hearing distortion goes I can fully hear when the cones bottoms in the box as it quite unpleasant of a sound.I dont run them at that level but I have pushed them until I heard it more than once.
+1...
I had this conversation with John the other day. I know everyone says you generally can't hear the cones getting angry in a horn loaded sub but I can hear it plain as day. It's very obvious to me when they've hit the wall. I don't know if it's left over from my car audio days or not ( we did tons of bandpass boxes back in the day and I could still hear the distortion...) but I find it's relatively easy to tell when the drivers cry "no mas"
Built so far:
AutoTuba. TAT, T18, T30, T39, SLA, SLA Pro, DR200, Omni 12TB, Omni 12 Sub, Omni 10.5,

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#10 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

RubiconProSound wrote:but I find it's relatively easy to tell when the drivers cry "no mas"
I doubt you're hearing the drivers bottom out, as you'd only hear it once, after which they would be DOA. You may be hearing the drivers fart out as the cone is pushed beyond xmax and distortion skyrockets. With the relatively short T24 horn it's fairly obvious, with longer horns not so much.

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RubiconProSound
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#11 Post by RubiconProSound »

Bill Fitzmaurice wrote:I doubt you're hearing the drivers bottom out, as you'd only hear it once, after which they would be DOA. You may be hearing the drivers fart out as the cone is pushed beyond xmax and distortion skyrockets. With the relatively short T24 horn it's fairly obvious, with longer horns not so much.
You are correct sir...bad choice of words on my part. I was referring to the distortion, (farting) and not the voice coil bottoming. Now that I read it again "no mas" would be the loud "clack" and silence that follows. :D
Built so far:
AutoTuba. TAT, T18, T30, T39, SLA, SLA Pro, DR200, Omni 12TB, Omni 12 Sub, Omni 10.5,

Ron K
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#12 Post by Ron K »

That is correct. Bottoming is actually a clucking sound when the former smacks the back plate. Some of the old EV Prolines had Teflon lined gaps so when bottoming occurs the coil wouldn't rub metal and blow up. However that sudden stop from bottoming would usually separate the coil form from the bottom of the cone and spider making for an absolutely awful sounding driver that eventually went on to driver heaven!

The sound I'm referring to inst actually bottoming (although I've referred to it as that many times) but the end of the good audible motion a cone can produce.It is very noticeable however in BP102 loaded T24s.
Ever since I replaced sex with food I cant even get into my own pants!

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Bill Fitzmaurice
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#13 Post by Bill Fitzmaurice »

Ron K wrote: However that sudden stop from bottoming would usually separate the coil form from the bottom of the cone and spider making for an absolutely awful sounding driver that eventually went on to driver heaven!
Its also the source of creased cones, which occurs when the XLim to XMax ratio is insufficient.

Rick Auricchio
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Re: T-24 complete with pics

#14 Post by Rick Auricchio »

I never realized the T24 was that complicated inside! Construction difficulty 5...looks tougher than that.

I love the panel sitting off to the right in photo #4. You should pop it into a picture frame and sell it!

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