Wedgehorn 8 upgrade

[gdougherty]

Due to budget I'd initially built a quartet of Wedgehorns loaded with the Dayton 6.5" drivers. It saved about $100 at the time and got me a set of monitors to use and covered more stage area than my old 15" loaded monitors.

Over the past year of running them I've had very positive comments about how great they worked and how well people could hear them, especially moderate volume accoustic musicians and vocalists. I'd also gotten a comment here and there that it was the best monitor several musicians had worked with.

Despite all that, another frequent comment was the lack of bass, especially when compared up against other small format monitors. We have a set of 4 small Mackie passive monitors that I think are loaded with 10" drivers, quite possibly loaded with a coaxial 10's given their size. They've been covering my bass monitor and our drum monitor because the wedgehorns just didn't quite cut it even with the sub on stage crossed at 100Hz.

Recently Dave and Tim reviewed Alpha 8 loaded wedgehorns and commented positively on the bass response of the cabinet. My budget has increased since my initial build so I decided to take the leap and swap in the 8's after looking at the baffle spacer required and how it just fits on top of the 7.5" baffle support built for the 6.5" driver. The Alpha 8 isn't substantially heavier than the Dayton 6.5" and it easily fits inside the cabinet with at least an inch to spare. So Alpha 8's instead of Alpha 6's it was.

I swapped two Saturday and left the other two to do a side by side comparison this morning. First thing I did at church this morning was to plug both in and use the old wedgehorn EQ which bumped up around 160Hz, pulled down the horn range and boosted the highs above 2K and a bit more around 10K. The difference between the two was very notable. The Alpha 8 loaded speaker was much smoother in the midrange playing recorded material and it had strength in the low-mid region that the 6.5" couldn't touch. The bass was strong and clear and swapping a 12db 100Hz low-cut filter in and out didn't make any appreciable difference in the bass content on either version.

After I swapped the remaining two this morning I generated a new flat EQ with my DEQ, transfered it to the monitor EQ and fired all four up on stage again early afternoon. The sound is finally what I'd been wanting in a general use monitor and what I'd been missing since ditching my old 15" loaded monitors. I'd been okay living without the bottom end mostly because the build was so cheap and the monitors were so light and covered such a wide space of stage unlike anything else I could find. The Alpha 8 version is IMO a no-compromise stage monitor. It'll take enough power to get brutally loud, handles the low end more than adequately for a stage monitor and still keeps all the other attributes I already loved about the design.

With a bit of my 4-string bass running to the subs I was very happy using it as a monitor and preferred it over the little Mackie monitors I'd been using. If you can hear the subs on stage you could easily use these as monitors for any instrument on stage. I cranked all four up on stage to a volume where my wife complained that it hurt her ears and I could hear it loudly at the back of the sanctuary. Even then we heard no distortion or low bass farting and the Carvin DCM1500 monitor amp with two per side was breathing light and easy.

One of the more amazing things to me was that our pastor commented on the improvement in sound sitting behind the monitors in the congregation. I'd expected things to sound better on stage, but hadn't considered the impact it might have on the audience.

So, verdict? I can't imagine building my next set of Wedgehorns without the Alpha 8's. The Dayton shaves $25/monitor and can't even begin to compare in performance. Even with the Alpha 8's I've estimated my next set of 4 will still only cost $400 instead of the $300 I spent on my first 4. In terms of alternatives, the Alpha 6 shaves less than a quarter of a lb in weight and on the specs at least looks about as good on the low end as the Dayton. Cost wise the Alpha 6 also shaves $3 or less over the Alpha 8 so I wouldn't recommend anything else. If you guaranteed would never need it for anything other than accoustic music and vocals I could see getting by with the Daytons for the absolute lowest cost monitor, but if you're going to need bottom end or plan to spend a few more dollars on the Alpha 6 I'd strongly recommend just using the Alpha 8 instead. IMO, the recommended driver in the plans shoould be the Alpha 8 instead of the Alpha 6 since I think most people would be happier with the 8 instead of the 6.

[Mark Coward]

Great report, I think that Dave used the Beta 8 maybe he will chime in. I read elsewhere on a bass forum someone comparing the Alpha 8 and Beta 8, and IIRC he said the Alpha seemed to have more bottom even though it won't handle as much power.

[gdougherty]

I recall the comments on the Beta vs Alpha and the Beta handled more power but lower xmax. Looking at the specs the Beta has a lower fs, but higher low point on the useable frequency range, moves 4cc less air at xmax and weighs two lbs more. Not going to turn it into a 50lb monitor cab from it's current 28lbs, but more weight is more weight and the real deal killer for me is the $10 increase in price. At the close range most wedgehorns get used you probably can't handle 150W without your ears bleeding. I'm not sure the wattage I pumped into them, but after 30 seconds of abuse my wife commented that her ears hurt a full minute after I turned off the music.

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

The Beta 8 225w driver is the 8" option recommended in the plans, so that is what I went for. It does have a little less bottom end than my 15" JBL subs but its very slight, and at the point where the main subs would fill in. I simply wanted the extra power handling, and as the build cost is so low it made no sense not to go for it to me.

Dave

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Loaded in the Wedgehorn there's not a lot of difference between the Alpha 8 and Beta 8, nor any reason to recommend either except on the basis of availablity and price. Leland tried the Dayton 6.5s and the now discontinued Eminence LA6 and found the LA6 much better.

[gdougherty]

The Beta 8 225w driver is the 8" option recommended in the plans, so that is what I went for. It does have a little less bottom end than my 15" JBL subs but its very slight, and at the point where the main subs would fill in. I simply wanted the extra power handling, and as the build cost is so low it made no sense not to go for it to me.

Dave

Looked at specs again, 7.1mm vs 7.4mm xlim in favor of the Beta and 7.8TM vs 9.6TM BL in favor of the Beta as well. In theory if it does have slightly less bass than the Alpha, the Beta should be slightly more accurate. I can't say that I found the Alpha to be muddy or inarticulate at all though. At the room volume I pushed them to, I think I'd have trouble in many indoor venues overpowering the monitor volume with the mains, so I'm not really worried about power handling, though $10 for the higher abuseability probably makes a lot of sense in some situations.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Looked at specs again, 7.1mm vs 7.4mm xlim in favor of the Beta and 7.8TM vs 9.6TM BL in favor of the Beta as well.

Insignificant when loaded in a Wedgehorn.

[gdougherty]

Looked at specs again, 7.1mm vs 7.4mm xlim in favor of the Beta and 7.8TM vs 9.6TM BL in favor of the Beta as well.

Insignificant when loaded in a Wedgehorn.

I'm guessing the 1db better efficiency with the Beta doesn't matter either, seems like it's not quite enough to worry about even in a traditional box either. Main advantage is that it'll handle creating more heat with the .5" larger voice coil? Or does the larger voice coil gain you other advantages as well?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Looked at specs again, 7.1mm vs 7.4mm xlim in favor of the Beta and 7.8TM vs 9.6TM BL in favor of the Beta as well.

Insignificant when loaded in a Wedgehorn.

I'm guessing the 1db better efficiency with the Beta doesn't matter either, seems like it's not quite enough to worry about even in a traditional box either. Main advantage is that it'll handle creating more heat with the .5" larger voice coil? Or does the larger voice coil gain you other advantages as well?

Again, insignificant in a Wedgehorn. You'll never get more than 50 watts into one before feedback, let alone 200.

[mottlefeeder]

... It'll take enough power to get brutally loud, handles the low end more than adequately for a stage monitor and still keeps all the other attributes I already loved about the design.

With a bit of my 4-string bass running to the subs I was very happy using it as a monitor and preferred it over the little Mackie monitors I'd been using. If you can hear the subs on stage you could easily use these as monitors for any instrument on stage. I cranked all four up on stage to a volume where my wife complained that it hurt her ears and I could hear it loudly at the back of the sanctuary. Even then we heard no distortion or low bass farting and the Carvin DCM1500 monitor amp with two per side was breathing light and easy...

Bill's advice on wedgehorns for bass and drums is to use a wedgehorn 10. Are you saying that with this upgrade (in a church worship band setting) you would be happy to use a <wedgehorn 8> for bass monitoring with no backline?

[gdougherty]

Bill's advice on wedgehorns for bass and drums is to use a wedgehorn 10. Are you saying that with this upgrade (in a church worship band setting) you would be happy to use a <wedgehorn 8> for bass monitoring with no backline?

Yes, though I also sit about 15ft away from the wall loaded T48 we use in the sanctuary and the bass gets run through the house and the subs. Monitors are low-cut at 100Hz and the crossover point on the mains is also at 100Hz. Depending on who's mixing I sometimes feel the monitor is louder than the subs and I'd like a little more bottom end blended in. Being a sound guy tough, I'd rather have just the low end in the subs and a good mix in the sanctuary than a bass rig with all the bottom end I'd personally like competing with the house mix. I can always hear myself and get plenty of the upper harmonics in the monitor alone, it's just a matter of that satisfying foundation not being there. Personally I mix the bass stronger and it probably wouldn't be an issue with me at the board. I haven't tried playing from the board and in that case the monitor blend would be all out of whack anyway, so I'll probably never know until we get another bass player.

So, yes, though you have to be ready to live with the trade offs and subsume your own desires to the needs of the house mix.

[gdougherty]

Tried it out tonight on bass with no subs. Definitely lacking on the bottom end, but it was enough to get the note and tone across even then.

[gdougherty]

http://picasaweb.google.com/georgedman/Wedgehorns

Finally got pictures of the wedgehorns. No grills on anything. Next set will have grills backing the ports and horn mouth.

[vlad335]

http://picasaweb.google.com/georgedman/Wedgehorns

Finally got pictures of the wedgehorns. No grills on anything. Next set will have grills backing the ports and horn mouth.

Nice cabs!