DR200 + T39

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

They are off to the sides out of shot

....The tape trailing to the left in the pic is going to the side fill DR...

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Nice, Stan did you use 8 DR200's? in the pictures all I can see is 4

Actually, you can see 6. There are two sitting on either side of the stage next to the tables, and a stacked pair on either side of the floor. The side fills are out of the shot - they are about 20ft to the left or right of the stage.

--Stan Graves

[James R]

Nice, Stan did you use 8 DR200's? in the pictures all I can see is 4

Where's Waldo?

I see 6.

Wasn't looking for waldo. In the picture I didn't notice the 2 on the floor where the pic splices together

[Mark Coward]

Did you use any delay on the side fills? Have you thought about using delayed rear speakers for even coverage? The DCX would allow for a delayed feed using a mono sum for input, while retaining stereo for the main stacks. Actually, if you're running mono subs and stereo tops, you'd have 3 extra outputs that could be used for delayed fills.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Did you use any delay on the side fills? Have you thought about using delayed rear speakers for even coverage? The DCX would allow for a delayed feed using a mono sum for input, while retaining stereo for the main stacks. Actually, if you're running mono subs and stereo tops, you'd have 3 extra outputs that could be used for delayed fills.

Nope - no delay at this event. I will have the tops about 10ft behind the subs at my next gig, and I've been experimenting with delay for that setup. The subs will be on the floor, and the tops will be on a stage.

I run mono out to the mains. IMO, stereo has no place in PA systems. Stereo is designed for headphones and fixed listening rooms. Stereo just doesn't work in wiiiiiiiiiide rooms. This ballroom is 215ft wide, my main speakers were almost 70 ft apart splitting the room into 1/3's. Any stereo blending would only sound OK right down the center of the room (al la the same issues with horizontal speakers and comb filtering).

I setup the room with two stacks of amps on either side of the stage. I sent hi-mid and low to each stack of amps on the sides of the stage. That allowed me to keep all the speaker cables short. So, I used four outputs from the DCX (two low, and two mid-high). One of the other outputs went to the video crew for thier recording.

--Stan Graves

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

IMO, stereo has no place in PA systems.
--Stan Graves

It does, but not in the usual fashion. Whether the material is recorded or live a stereo feed deepens the soundstage and gives the impression of being louder than it really is. But with as wide a venue as this I'd run four sets of tops as L-R-L-R, for instance.

[Mark Coward]

[But with as wide a venue as this I'd run four sets of tops as L-R-L-R, for instance.

Glad you mention this, it's something I'd considered before but didn't know if it was a viable approach.

In a very wide room, would side stacks need to be delayed?

[gdougherty]

[But with as wide a venue as this I'd run four sets of tops as L-R-L-R, for instance.

Glad you mention this, it's something I'd considered before but didn't know if it was a viable approach.

In a very wide room, would side stacks need to be delayed?

No delay is used to align speakers that are projecting into the same area at different depths, ie rear delays placed further back in a room to augment the volume projected from the mains. The delay there aligns the mains with the augmentation source. For a wide setup you'd be projecting forward for the most part just like your LR mains and delay wouldn't be beneficial.

[horst]

IMO, stereo has no place in PA systems.
--Stan Graves

It does, but not in the usual fashion. Whether the material is recorded or live a stereo feed deepens the soundstage and gives the impression of being louder than it really is. But with as wide a venue as this I'd run four sets of tops as L-R-L-R, for instance.

that's what I was thinking, well not going cross stereo, which is pretty ingenious actually, but having 4 stacks of two DR200 rather than having 4 on their lonesome, that way the bottom end would be improved across the floor,
having to rely a little less on the central cluster of subs, plus you get the benefit of increased fidelity from stacking of all the drivers, well I wasn't there so the way you set it up might be superior, but I would have been sorely tempted to keep them all stacked

great review btw Stan wish I could have heard it

[Tim A]

Stan, how much do the 14" T-39's weigh? How are they for moving around? What did you do about handles, if anything?

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Stan, how much do the 14" T-39's weigh? How are they for moving around? What did you do about handles, if anything?

The T39's are between 46 and 48 pounds. For handles, I put some at the top and bottom of the "back"...I did add the quarter round to the inside of the handle.


Using the handles and the horn mouth, these boxes are very easy to move around. I did not add wheels to each cabinet. Instead, I stack & strap them 4 high to a furniture dolly for long hauls.

--Stan Graves

[Scott Brochu]

Stan, how much do the 14" T-39's weigh? How are they for moving around? What did you do about handles, if anything?

The T39's are between 46 and 48 pounds. For handles, I put some at the top and bottom of the "back"...I did add the quarter round to the inside of the handle.


Using the handles and the horn mouth, these boxes are very easy to move around. I did not add wheels to each cabinet. Instead, I stack & strap them 4 high to a furniture dolly for long hauls.

--Stan Graves

Do they stack pretty good with those corners? (when you got a gig not transport)

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Do they stack pretty good with those corners? (when you got a gig not transport)

Yup. They stack fine, and even resist minor bumps from passers by when stacked. I only intend to stack 2 high in most cases...that's four cabinets in a two high V. If I ever make one stack with all eight subs, it will certainly be out of the way.

I have two stacks of four on furniture dolly's in my garage. Even without the strap, they are solid enough to wheel around like that.

I have one cabinet that is just enough off (about 1/8" shorter than the others) to make stacking a little tough. That one goes on the top layer...

--Stan Graves

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Update: Second "big room" event.

I just finished my second "big room" event. I forgot the camera, so no pics from this one.

The room is an athletic center - wood floor, cinderblock walls, high ceiling with a peak that runs down the middle. There is room for two full basketball courts to split the room. The sound equipment is setup on a 4ft tall stage at one end of the room. The room is about 130ft "deep" and 100ft "wide" from the point of view of the stage. The roof peak runs straight out from the stage. The room is very "live" from a sound point of view - lots of flat hard surfaces at right angles.

I took half the system with me: 4 DR200's and 4 T39's. That is the most i can carry inside the SUV. I would have loved to take all 8 subs...but i just don't have the pack space to make that happen.

The subs were V-plated on the floor in front of the stage. Because of the stage height, I did pointed them out into the room. The DR200's were stacked two high (x-fire on bottom, straight on top) on stands on the stage. They were about 15ft apart, and about 9-10ft off the floor.
I did not have a chance to check the voltage that was going to the speakers to see how much power was being used. Based on the board settings, my guess is that I was using somewhere around 75 watts per box.

For some reason, only my computer sent a balanced amount of bass and mid/high to the system. There were three other DJs who played through the system. The other setup's were *very* light on bass. I do not fully understand why this was the case. Since I used my system to do the sound check, that meant adjustments during the night. I'm still learning what controls on the DEQ & DCX I can mess with and which will cause the sound to "drop."

By the end of the night, I had managed a good balance of subs and mid/high for the room. When I checked, I was upping the gain to the subs by about 10dB compared to the tops! This was a combination of turning the tops down and the subs up.

The 1/2 of the room closest to the subs sounded awesome. The next 1/2 was too bright - the subs seemed to disappear in the mix. Within 15ft of the back wall, the bass was back (love that room gain). I could up the gain on the subs to get a good amount of bass in the back 1/2 of the room - but then it was too loud if you were close to the subs.

A few people found it to be "too bright" or "too clean" - at least compared to what they are use to in that room. They might have been sitting in the back half of the room.

The system was so bright that many felt like the "mid bass" was not well represented in the mix. This was entirely about song selection. I played some songs that have a lot of mid bass content and they seemed to "get" that they were hearing what was really in the music. I think the distortions from direct subs adding content in the 250Hz-1000Hz range is so ingrained in people that they have come to expect that in a PA system.

Most of the comments were about the brightness and clarity of the system. There were a lot of people who were impressed that they could stand in front of the tops (on the floor) and it was not too loud. Most people said that near the subs this system sounded better than any other PA that has been in the building! The rest of the room needed more bass.

I got some very constructive feedback from several other DJs, and members of local bands who were there. Given one or two more outtings to this venue, I should be able to get the system tuned for that space.

--Stan Graves

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Undoubtably the variable bass conditions were boundary sourced, especially if you weren't able to get the subs within a couple of feet of the rear wall. This may be one of those cases where a non-intuitive sub placement works best, getting them as close as possible to walls even if that means away from the tops. With that much room width splitting them wide is an option to try also.