First Outing, Full Band, Titan 48s and omnitop 12s

Message

Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:55 am

chopperguy99 wrote:I had the EXACT same problem with my titans. I blamed an old kick mic, but I now think it is the drum. Recorded kick pounded. Sounded really strong and tight. Live kick sounded like a smack instead of a thump.

A really good live kick demands separate full EQ and compressor for the kick alone. That's standard fare on every channel of tour grade consoles, or on a Yamaha 01v in the mid-price range, non-existent on low end and md-price analog mixers.

gdougherty · #32 Post by **gdougherty** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:59 pm

Mark Coward wrote: I don't know where you get that he did not have them wired correctly? In his first post:

My contention is that the amp will put out more power in bridged mono with the subs in parallel yet still run easily and well within it's rated capabilities (far below actually). The 2402 is plenty of amp in this configuration. Yes, a limiter would then be a requirement to keep from exceeding the capability of the sub. I keep mine limited to 60V. If I'm hitting the limiter then it's time to back down. If I can't get the output I need, it's time to build more subs.

Mark Coward · #33 Post by **Mark Coward** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:43 pm

gdougherty wrote:
Mark Coward wrote: I don't know where you get that he did not have them wired correctly? In his first post:
My contention is that the amp will put out more power in bridged mono with the subs in parallel yet still run easily and well within it's rated capabilities (far below actually). The 2402 is plenty of amp in this configuration. Yes, a limiter would then be a requirement to keep from exceeding the capability of the sub. I keep mine limited to 60V. If I'm hitting the limiter then it's time to back down. If I can't get the output I need, it's time to build more subs.

Ok, I agree with you on this, but that does not mean that his subs were wired incorrectly. I have no qualms about running the PLX 02 series bridged into 4 ohm, or 2 ohm stereo. I hope to have 4 T48's and 4 DR250's completed soon, and I want to see how well they work running off one amp like a PLX 3102 or 3602 with four cabs per side @2 ohm. IMO this would be impressive as hell, especially if it could be A/B compared with a typical front load setup.

gdougherty · #34 Post by **gdougherty** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:42 pm

Mark Coward wrote: Ok, I agree with you on this, but that does not mean that his subs were wired incorrectly.

True enough, on it's own it's not accurate. My comment though was in response to brodave's comment about needing to bring a bigger amp next time around. It's not a terribly apt analogy but to me that'd be like saying my V8 engine was only firing 4 of 8 cylinders because the plugs were pulled so I should have had a V12 so I could use half of it's cylinders instead.

brodave2 · #35 Post by **brodave2** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:35 pm

easy now, I have two amp racks I can use with the rig. One rack's biggest amp is a 2402, the other has 3402's in it, it's not a problem to use a bigger amp. Nothing was wired incorrectly. And as far as the CD sounding great and the live sound being lacking, that was all due to volume. I wasn't running the CD nearly as loud as the live band. I am running a yamaha LS9-32 digital mixer, I have available unlimited eq, compression, and gating options. I don't really like to compress the kick, it takes the life out of it. The subs ran out of gas, period. I either need to up the power or the number of subs. This was a trial run. The subs did not meet my expectations as set up, so I will change something next time out. When I turned the kick on up and made the lights blink on the amp, it sounded pretty good. I think one step up in power would do the trick. I think bridging a 2402 would be asking for trouble, because without accurate limiting, it could spell disaster. I don't see the 3402 in stereo mode being able to hurt the 3015's without serious overdriving. The amp goes 700 watts per channel in stereo mode 8 ohms. Works out to about 560 at 10 ohms. I could go to the trouble of setting up a limiter, but why bother if I can get what I want without it. If its' going to be that much trouble, I'll just go back to my double 18's, I know what they can take. The omnitops are a HUGE success. I love them, they are exactly what I was looking for. I think the titans will work out too, but I don't need a lesson on kick drum, I could write a book on the topic. As far as the triggered kick goes, that's an easy thing to do live. A kick mic will work as a trigger for an Alesis DM5. I've never done it, but you can switch over to it at FOH and the drummer will never know.

mloretitsch · #36 Post by **mloretitsch** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:09 pm

brodave2 wrote:I don't see the 3402 in stereo mode being able to hurt the 3015's without serious overdriving. The amp goes 700 watts per channel in stereo mode 8 ohms. Works out to about 560 at 10 ohms.

I've had a lapse in memory on my amps...
I predict you'll be fine. My PL218 bridged into a pair of T48's has yet to hurt them. I've been diligent on keeping it completely out of clipping. I generally run them in stereo off the same amp though as I don't need as much volume. That's rated 1800w @ 4ohms or 1100w @ 8ohms bridged.

Thanks for the LS9 help above. Sounds like just the ticket for the folks I am helping. They have completely different saturday night and sunday bands that play. Plus some youth stuff. The M7 has a similar gain setup so I know what ya mean. It takes some getting used to all the weird fader positions which is something that is attractive to me about the LS9. I think I'll use that as my sales pitch to them..."Come on guys...it has TOTAL RECALL" creepy terminator voice included.

They are really into the recording idea now too so I thought the LS9 might provide them with some good recording options. They want to split vocal channels off from the band and a crowd mic for recordings. Should be able to assign all the omni outs to do what they want.

-Matt

brodave2 · #37 Post by **brodave2** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:21 pm

you can clone the inputs where one mic feeds channel 1 on the top layer and channel 33 on the bottom layer (or whatever pairing you want), such that the top layer mixes mains, and the bottom layer mixes recording. You can also record directly out into a usb flash drive, mp3 format.. You can also plug the same flash driver into the usb input and play music off of it. Supposedly the sound quality is the same in the LS9 vs. the M7. The M7 has some functionality that the LS9 doesn't, and the LS9 doesn't have the touch screen. That's no big deal unless you get used to a touch screen.

daver · #38 Post by **daver** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:32 am

brodave2 wrote: I either need to up the power or the number of subs. This was a trial run. The subs did not meet my expectations as set up, so I will change something next time out.

Hi Dave,

I run a *pair* of old design T30 slims with 4012HO's on a bridged PLX3002, without limiting, and without troubles. Lots of output, but I keep an eye on things too.

I'd try more power and see what you think. My two cents.