Hanging DR280's Revisited....

[N.Webber]

how do they sound

Very good, Read at the end of this thread:
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.p ... msg_210975

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

how do they sound

Very good, Read at the end of this thread:
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.p ... msg_210975

I think many of our members, myself included, would appreciate a review here. Given the anti-DIY bias at PSW more than a few of us don't go there, myself included.

[N.Webber]

Bill,

I know what you mean

Being a 'Pro' forum I can understand this anti-DIY attitude.
Though I think it is actually the not-so-pro members/posters who are 'leading' the boycott.
The pros know better to judge a cab with their EARS and give less weight to how it looks,
not to mention some 'No Sayers' who give their verdict without even listening to a cab.

Lately there was a discussion on PSW about this pro-DIY cabs issue
(here: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/26445/6698/ )
I posted regarding my previous builds and of coarse my recent DR290 project.
That didn't trigger any negative response other than the understandable Rider compatibility and the re-sell value issues.

I think your cab designs are a perfect proof that DIY cabs can be (very) good cabs.
I also think posting about them over at PSW will have a better 'impact' in this regard,
as some posters there find the reports here biased.

Another reason is being reluctant to post here as older threads are often deleted ('clean up'?)
and so have no residual value…

By the way, I am now building an Omni10.5 for a friend.
In the middle now:

[kjacobs]

Okay, here was my small idea for how to possibly hang multiple DR280's....



This is strictly in the thinking stage right now.

It mainly consists of some 1/8" or 3/16" steel plates, 3" wide by ~ 27" tall with a second steel plated welded to the outside at the top to overlap the cabinet bracket above it. 3/8" bolts at top and bottom mount the plate to the cab with a reinforcing plate inside the cab to bolt to. The back adjustment could be similar to Nimrod's cabs.

You should be able to roll the first cab up, mount the brackets, attach the cables, lift the cab up. Roll the next cab under, mount the bracket, bolt the two together and lift, etc., etc.

Need to still do research on how much weight the steel brackets can hold, etc. But it should be simple to accomplish and the bracket should hold most of the weight of the array and not the boxes.

That was, at least, my idea for the moment....

[David Luscombe]

Bill,

I know what you mean

Being a 'Pro' forum I can understand this anti-DIY attitude.
Though I think it is actually the not-so-pro members/posters who are 'leading' the boycott.
The pros know better to judge a cab with their EARS and give less weight to how it looks,
not to mention some 'No Sayers' who give their verdict without even listening to a cab.

Lately there was a discussion on PSW about this pro-DIY cabs issue
(here: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/26445/6698/ )
I posted regarding my previous builds and of coarse my recent DR290 project.
That didn't trigger any negative response other than the understandable Rider compatibility and the re-sell value issues.

I think your cab designs are a perfect proof that DIY cabs can be (very) good cabs.
I also think posting about them over at PSW will have a better 'impact' in this regard,
as some posters there find the reports here biased.

Another reason is being reluctant to post here as older threads are often deleted ('clean up'?)
and so have no residual value…

By the way, I am now building an Omni10.5 for a friend.
In the middle now:

Hi All

i started the thread Nimrod is talking about at psw. the long and short of it all is that nimrod's boxs convinced me that you can diy a pro product and that combined with the fact that the cost of buying a new pa today is rediculous. so i am reading on this forum all i can and also over at psw(even though i look at what people say and you can tell who is full of it and who is not) and gathering all my info and doing my own investigation and very soon will begin the quest to construct 8 DR290's.

i am in the middle of deciding whether to build lab subs or some of Bills Subs but that is another story

as for the anti DIY thing at psw well you get that don't you when we build our stuff we are gonna make sure it looks pro and put a fake brand on it and i have found that as long as it sounds great then people won't care.

cheers dave

[Tim A]

gathering all my info and doing my own investigation and very soon will begin the quest to construct 8 DR290's.

Before you do that, read all of David Perry's posts about the 290 Vs. the 280. After building and hearing them both, he ripped the compression drivers out of his 290's and replaced them with piezo arrays. I've been building cabinets for a very long time, and I can tell you that I will never go back to compression drivers. They don't add to the sound, they simply add weight and cost.

i am in the middle of deciding whether to build lab subs or some of Bills Subs but that is another story

It should be the same story. Big sound and lightweight. After having built several different designs, Bill's cabs do it all, and they do it better. There are, of course, people out there who would have you believe otherwise. Most of them have a private agenda, such as trying to further their own designs. Some of them are simply stupid. They'll pick them over having never heard them, insisitng that the design is flawed. PFFT! People can post all the charts and specs they want. The fact of the matter is that it all comes down to how it sounds. Hearing is believing.

when we build our stuff we are gonna make sure it looks pro and put a fake brand on it.

Why on earth do that? Be proud of the cabs and your accomplishment. I can guarantee you they'll turn heads. There's no need to hide the fact that they're DIY, the cabinets will stand up against anything out there. I get approached by musos saying how great they sound and asking what the hell kind of cabinets they are, where I got them, how much they were, etc. etc. Some of them refuse to believe they're not manufactured cabs.

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

gathering all my info and doing my own investigation and very soon will begin the quest to construct 8 DR290's.

Before you do that, read all of David Perry's posts about the 290 Vs. the 280. After building and hearing them both, he ripped the compression drivers out of his 290's and replaced them with piezo arrays. .

Indeed....
Here is what I would suggest any DR290 builder should do....buy 12 1016 piezo's and cut and glue them into an array, replace one of your DR290's horns with the full bank of piezo's and just do a simple A/B of a DR290 bi-amped & time alligned correctly against the DR290 loaded with 12 piezo'd, powered off the same amp that is powering your DR290 mids, with no crossover, no time allignment. Be carefull to first eq each cab to suit the different Hf sections and then sit back....

If it was anything like my experiences you will soon be ripping the horns out of your DR290's....

Its at the very least a worth while experiment to compare them and see what all the fuss is about...cant be true can it.....
http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2718

I was providing Pa for a very good U2 tribute act again last night and I can honestly say that I now have simply the best vocal sound I have ever achieved...all with less power and super cheap components. My 4 DR280's just get super clear & super loud. The new mods have made a massive difference as well...

Dave

[David Luscombe]

Hi

just to clarify a few things: i have to be able to get people to use these boxs hence the fake name and hiding the DIY factor. i can guarentee that if people know that the boxs are DIY they will gather dust and will have to put up with using sub par name brand crap. i know it makes no sense BUT that is the industry i work in (pro theatre/ pro venue). some people will always be narrow minded. hence with this i will also be using normal horns regardless of what is better, i simply don't need to ave a discssion everytime about how crap piezo' s are regardless of the truth. this is what is so good about Bills designs because in in there most normal version IE comp drivers as opposed to piezo's and the ability to put hanging hardware adds a lot of weight to there credibility. and yes all the guys who come through listen with there eyes first.

cheers david luscombe

[Les Webb]

Hi

just to clarify a few things: i have to be able to get people to use these boxs hence the fake name and hiding the DIY factor. i can guarentee that if people know that the boxs are DIY they will gather dust and will have to put up with using sub par name brand crap. i know it makes no sense BUT that is the industry i work in (pro theatre/ pro venue). some people will always be narrow minded. hence with this i will also be using normal horns regardless of what is better, i simply don't need to ave a discssion everytime about how crap piezo' s are regardless of the truth. this is what is so good about Bills designs because in in there most normal version IE comp drivers as opposed to piezo's and the ability to put hanging hardware adds a lot of weight to there credibility. and yes all the guys who come through listen with there eyes first.

cheers david luscombe

I can bet most people you know have never seen a piezo array. I can promise they won't have a clue what it is. Make up a name for it out of thin air and say its the latest development in tweeters.

Les

[Mikey]

i have to be able to get people to use these boxs hence the fake name and hiding the DIY factor ... i simply don't need to ave a discssion everytime about how crap piezo' s are regardless of the truth

But why should you have to suffer for others' ignorance? Why should you have to pay-out the enormous added expense of horns, drivers, crossovers, and amps, only to stroke others' egos?

You're not the first one to be in this quandry. Although there are a lot of people who listen with their eyes first, there are also people who will still bitch about the piezos, even after they've heard them. The simple solution is to hide them. A lot of guys here have had metal grills custom fabricated to cover the front of DRs, and then use a thin layer of foam behind them. This hides the piezos, adds to the visual appeal, and protects from damage.

As far as the "DIY" factor ... you don't have to tell anyone that YOU made them. Just give extra attention to their outward appearance and tell everyone they're custom made. For contracts, supply SPL charts for their capabilities. Once you've done some gigs, the system's reputation will put an end to most inquisitions.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Put a grille over them as David did. What they don't know won't hurt them.

[N.Webber]

Hi,

First let me state I have nothing 'basic' against piezo arrays.
I haven't actually listened and compared a piezo array to the
recommended dual comparison driver and horn setup of the DR290.

I have some questions though.

David,
If I recall correctly your piezos replaced different compression drivers
then the recommended for the DR290.
I seem to remember the ones you used originally were B&C or JBL and
not the Eminence Neo 2005s. Am I right?
If so, then your original (or reference, for this matter) '290' was not actually
a 'true' DR290, and may have given a wrong impression in this regard

And one For Bill…
If the only difference between the 280 and the 290 is in the HF section,
and as the general impression here is that the piezos of the 280
do a better job (cost and weigh less, sound better etc.)
why not 'cancel' the 290 option all together?

Or are there other aspects or benefits of the 290 over the 280

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

why not 'cancel' the 290 option all together?

Because of those who refuse to believe. I don't offer the option because any one needs it, but because they want it.

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

David,
If I recall correctly your piezos replaced different compression drivers
then the recommended for the DR290.
I seem to remember the ones you used originally were B&C or JBL and
not the Eminence Neo 2005s. Am I right?

Correct. I used JBL 2416 1" horns in the HF section as I already had them. Just the replacement diaphragms cost more than the eminence horns, I doubt very much that the eminence horns would sound better than the JBL's,but perhaps so, I have always been impressed with the Eminence drivers.

Keep in mind that I thought my DR290s sounded fantastic...the piezo array is well worth trying out as its a very cheap thing to purchase/make (they also sound smoother close up in my view than the 1" horns).

Think about this...If it does sound as good, the weight saving and power saving on amps/processing will be significant on 6 DR290's...You may find you prefer the Horns, but its worth an experiment.

The reason I went for the DR290 was simply that it was the only cab (other than the DR300) that was called a PA specific cab. I could not believe for a second that a multi purpose cab (DR200/250/280) could possibly work as a Pro sounding PA cab ( I was wrong)

David Luscombe, Regarding giving a cab a false name, you had better be very wary with this...Any pro audio guy will spot what you are doing when they plug the cabs in, regardless of how good the cabs sound or look, and you could end up up sh*t creak without a paddle. Be up front or stump up the cash for the rider friendly cabs if that is what gets the work...false advertising aint good for a business in the long run....Call them what you want as long it is not an existing cab/brand name...

If rider friendly needs was a part of my work I would never have gone down the DIY route, I'm glad it isnt.....

Dave

[Tim A]

Hi,

First let me state I have nothing 'basic' against piezo arrays.
I haven't actually listened and compared a piezo array to the
recommended dual comparison driver and horn setup of the DR290.

I have some questions though.

David,
If I recall correctly your piezos replaced different compression drivers
then the recommended for the DR290.
I seem to remember the ones you used originally were B&C or JBL and
not the Eminence Neo 2005s. Am I right?
If so, then your original (or reference, for this matter) '290' was not actually
a 'true' DR290, and may have given a wrong impression in this regard

And one For Bill…
If the only difference between the 280 and the 290 is in the HF section,
and as the general impression here is that the piezos of the 280
do a better job (cost and weigh less, sound better etc.)
why not 'cancel' the 290 option all together?

Or are there other aspects or benefits of the 290 over the 280

This entire post smells like a person who doesn't like piezos. Sorry, but I don't buy your first statement. You spend the rest of the thread trying to disprove them. I suspect it has nothing to do with the venues you at which you work.

But that's ok, not everyone is sold right off the bat. It takes time to come to grips with it.