BFM system review.

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Sydney · #31 Post by **Sydney** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:28 pm

Congrats on gig.

(We need a soundman.)

It usually helps - especially if they are good, and familiar with the band's set list ,and get on well with all.
With a review like that ( and a healthy pay check like you got ). I'd think a lot of mixers would like that job.
Too bad you're 180 miles away...

Vague diagnosis and a script for drugs = Modern Medicine in 3rd millennium.
Hopefully there was minimal out-of-pocket expense for such brilliant work.
( RX: for leg & knee - I've found leg and knee strengthening & alignment exercises help. A lot of orthopedic surgeons want to use surgery to solve ALL knee problems - You didn't tear an ACL in HS football did you?)

Tim A · #32 Post by **Tim A** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:18 pm

Gald to hear it all, in this order:

Leg
System
Drummer

vlad335 · #33 Post by **vlad335** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:10 am

gitfiddl wrote:Anyway, any info and your rack would be greatly appreciated.

No problem. Heres a pic of the rack from a couple weeks ago. I since traded the RMX 850 for a QSC PLX 1202 out of my bass rig for the lows.

I am running the 1202 bridge mono into the pair of Titans using a summed output from the behringer DCX2496. The 1202 puts out 1200watts into 4 ohms. The Titans are listed as 5 ohms so the power is less. ( I don't know how much.)

I am running left/right outputs out of the mixer into the A/B inputs of the Behringer. The QSC 1850HD is running the Omnitops in stereo at 2.66 ohms. This amp's spec is 900watts into 2 ohms.

Tops are crossed over 80hz/24db octave. Input/output levels are at default. Don't know the unit well enough to set anything above basics.

AntonZ · #34 Post by **AntonZ** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:00 am

vlad335 wrote:behringer DCX2496 - Input/output levels are at default. Don't know the unit well enough to set anything above basics.

While I don't own a DCX, I may purchase one in the future and downloaded the pc setup program for it from the Behringer website.

http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/DCX249 ... _1_16a.zip

No need to actually connect the unit to the pc. I just started the program to play around with settings and get a feel for what the unit can do. While it took a little time to catch the logic, it soon became quite clear to me. I think I have less experience and knowledge of pro audio than you have.

vlad335 · #35 Post by **vlad335** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:15 pm

AntonZ wrote:
vlad335 wrote:behringer DCX2496 - Input/output levels are at default. Don't know the unit well enough to set anything above basics.
While I don't own a DCX, I may purchase one in the future and downloaded the pc setup program for it from the Behringer website.

http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/DCX249 ... _1_16a.zip

No need to actually connect the unit to the pc. I just started the program to play around with settings and get a feel for what the unit can do. While it took a little time to catch the logic, it soon became quite clear to me. I think I have less experience and knowledge of pro audio than you have.

I should have phrased my comment differently.

THe problem is while I could change settings with my laptop very easy, I couldn't really hear the effects of said changes while testing in my tiny basement. Plus I had to learn a new mixing board as well as the DEQ2496 so I just kept things basic.

We had planned on setting up the night before and I was going to try a bunch of things but that didn't turn out so well. We had some complaints from neighboring places and the biggest collection of A-holes at the bar I have ever encountered. One in particular was a local DJ with whom I had to exercise some serious self control with. When I was pinking the system he kept yelling that he could do that by ear and was making loud comments on the sound of every instrument I was soundchecking. He wasn't the only one either.

I really wanted to mess with some delay times and the dynamic EQ among alot of other things but I couldn't take the jerks anymore. I think we are going to get this system over there on a Sunday afternoon for some real testing and tweaking.

Zack Brock · #36 Post by **Zack Brock** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:09 pm

Did the drummer make any comments about the system? And did his friends and relatives say anything to him aboout it?

DJ Big Ronn · #37 Post by **DJ Big Ronn** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:05 am

vlad335 wrote:Thanks for the replies!

I would have to say the gig was a resounding success for the band. We made a good bit of cash ( Initial agreement of $250 + the door) and everyone had a great time! Pretty big crowd considering every place in the area had a band for Halloween. Everyone that came in stayed. We each took home $155 and this was with a 3.00 cover plus we gave away about $200 in cash prizes for costumes.

The system performed beyond belief. I turned the Titans towards the wall, 16" away and they were slamming. A bit too much though, especially for the guitar player's rig. His guitar cut out a couple times in the first couple tunes and he thought his cable was bad. Turns out the bass waves were pushing his cable out of his amp! We had to move his half stack a bit and duct tape his cord to the head! OK, OK... I admit I may have had the kick a bit too loud at first but got it tamed down. I forgot the way the drummer soundchecks his drums and plays live are two different levels. Plus the new toy effect was in play. Unfortunatly, the guitar player got the full brunt of this. (We need a soundman.)

At the end of the night some dude told me his beer bottle was moving on the bar when we were playing. The bar I'd estimate is a good 100' away! I used to put thousands of watts into multiple 18" subs and it wouldn't do this. I turned up the CD playing through the system and it sounded beautiful at the bar. Clean and clear and the bass was hitting. I wished I could have heard what the band sounded like.

Something else remarkable was there was no feedback. None... Nada, zippo, zilch. Not one second of feedback even with the lead singer walking out onto the dance floor a couple times. I don't know if this was the RTA or the Omnitops or a combination of the two but I don't think I ever played without dealing with feedback. AND WE WERE LOUD!

I heard a couple comments on how clear the vocals were and my wife said it sounded great. Thats good enough for me as she can be brutally honest at times. The place where we played is full of expert critics and I heard nothing negative at the end of the night.

Anyone reading this and sitting on the fence about building some BFM cabs I say stop wasting time and do it. Before I wandered into here I was reading posts on PSW recommending 4000 watts to drive subs for a small system.
Bullshit! High effeciency horns are the way to go.

I agree that horns are the way to go. In case anyone has any doubts about the plug coming out of the guitar head, I'll share a little expierience I had friday night. I was a little pressed for space at a Christmas party that I did friday night, so I was forced to face my t-48's in the upright position side by side into a corner and stack two Dr-250's on top. I had to sell to my wife, that if she let me spend the money on a Dcx-2496, that I wouldn't blow subs anymore. Imagine my horror when she noticed that the bass fell off all of a sudden and gave me the evil eye. A quick check revealed that one of the plugs had come out of the back of the amp. Anyway the Titans do rock, and this is another reason to get rid of the bananna plug and put on the neutrik.

Zack Brock · #38 Post by **Zack Brock** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:09 am

DJ Big Ronn wrote:...and this is another reason to get rid of the bananna plug and put on the neutrik.

Or get the banana plug/binding post combination. Hard to shake loose a wire that is inserted into a hole and twisted tight onto a binding post

DAVID_L_PERRY · #39 Post by **DAVID_L_PERRY** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:19 am

Anyone taking out speakers to gigs should be using speakons....
1/4" Jacks are easily pulled out by mistake....
banana plugs...holy crap....not a chance

they should only be used in home stereo, or car audio in my opinion. (they can also be used in hard wired rack cases for amps where they are not going to be messed with)

Jacks are fine for backline amps, but even then I prefer the security of speakons.....

DJ Big Ronn · #40 Post by **DJ Big Ronn** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:53 am

That was my first issue with one, and I probably will eventually convert, but I have not had any issues with them probably because all of the females that they plug into face upward. That being said, the back of the amp does not have the angle and the plug fell out, because it was old and loose. Speakon by all means if you are building new, but between Christmas, Mardi Gras and the weddings in between, I just dont have the time right now.

Zack Brock · #41 Post by **Zack Brock** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:28 am

To be sure, I was condoning the use of binding posts, not banana plugs.

Binding Post: Often referred to as a five-way binding post, this is a heavy-duty speaker connector to which a cable can be attached in several ways. It consists of a threaded shaft with a knob that can be tightened to secure either a spade lug or a loop of bare wire at the end of a cable to the shaft. The shaft is hollow, so it can accept a banana plug, and there is also a transverse opening into which a wire can be inserted and secured by tightening the knob.

You can argue Speakons all you want, but electrically speaking, it doesn't get much better than bare wire on posts

Looks like this:

DJ Big Ronn · #42 Post by **DJ Big Ronn** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:38 am

That would work great for permanent install, but that would take too long to set up and tear down. I could do that on the rear of the amps, but then I would have 200'ft of thick cable that would be permanently attached to my rack. Connection wise though, I'm with you

I think that I'll hardwire from the amps to speakons mounted on the side of the rack, so that when I set up, I can just plug speaker wires into the side of the rack. I did this with the power cords and it works great. To get back on subject though, you need to have solid connections, because the bass can/will unplug them.

Mark Coward · #43 Post by **Mark Coward** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:16 pm

DJ Big Ronn wrote:Connection wise though, I'm with you I think that I'll hardwire from the amps to speakons mounted on the side of the rack, so that when I set up, I can just plug speaker wires into the side of the rack.

This is what I do, except use a patch panel in the front of the rack for the speakons. I like being able to reconfigure easily as needed, if I need to bridge an amp just connect across both channel's red posts - no need for wiring an oddball speakon which most modern amps require for bridged operation.

I would not trust banana plugs for this, they could vibrate out or get knocked out during transport, I'd have to double-check them every time which defeats the purpose of not having to dig into the back of the amp rack.

vlad335 · #44 Post by **vlad335** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:33 pm

Recently added melded arrays and steel grills to my Omnitop 12's and just wanted to say it's a big upgrade. Improved the high frequency response and throw considerably. I verified this with RTA back at the soundboard but I really didn't need to. We could tell immediately.

The Otops just flat out sounded better and thats scary. Planning the same upgrade for the Omnitop 2-12's. The next builds will be another pair of O-tops on the bottom of the stack (using the EV speakers I have laying around here.) and a pair of T-48's 30" wide. this is for one huge room we play and some outdoor gigs we have this summer. Right now as it stands this system rocks all the places we play!

I cannot stress how much I love this rig. It's lightweight, sounds huge and clear, and is a breeze to setup. It takes a total of about 15minutes from the trailer to playing a CD through the PA! I am not making this up! I gave everybody their jobs to do and now we are like a well oiled machine.
Soundchecking individual instruments is a piece of cake too. They just sound good right off the bat. Most of the channels with the exception of the kickdrum are basically set flat with just minor EQ here and there needed for different rooms.
We haven't popped a breaker yet and have no feedback problems whatsoever. I mean ZERO feedback no matter how loud we play. Whats the deal with that? Is this a charactoristic of horns? Obviously, cause every band I have been in we ran into THAT ROOM where everything was ringing and it was a constant headache. Just not the case with this system, no matter how small the room or how loud we play.

Anyway, just wanted to update my review.

AntonZ · #45 Post by **AntonZ** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:38 pm

Great to hear how your band has changed their views on this system and now works with you to set it up. IIRC they gave you little credit before you got started.

The X-stands are nice, foldable, lightweight, but I think the color (the blank aluminium and red plastic) draws too much attention. To me it makes the entire system look a bit messy and that does not match what it sounds like. Just hanging some black fabric over the stands would make the system look even better than it does now.