Ideas for small scale DR line array stands

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

As the DR range of cabs are based upon line array theory, methods of supporting mulitple cabs is an extra complication.

Add to this that most people on this forum are also a little wiser regarding sub placement, and that stacking your DR tops directly on left/right placed subs is far from ideal as you are loosing the benefits of correct sub placement, however its also probably the safest way to stack your tops, so its a safety/sound judgment call....

Most people will not be able to afford the several thousand £/$ for one of these standard 'compact' array stands:-

And if you could, a pair would need a van of there own to transport....

This is the other traditional method of supporting arrays:-


Again cost and size is the big restriction for most small bands.

This thread is to try and compile a list of different ways of stacking your DR's safely, but still in the reach of the typical club/Bar bands budget.

Keep in mind that all the ideas here are simply to try and get a simple and better solution than single tripods that lots of guys are using.

As a picture speaks a thousand words its of great help for any ideas to be backed up with a sketch. 'Google sketchup' is a great way to do this quickly.


Remember the golden rule, any ideas shown here are just that, ideas. If you try something its at your own risk,best make sure your public indemnity is upto date.

Dave Perry

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

Tim Ards simple line array stand for 4 DR200's

http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4062

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

My variation on Tims idea for 2DR280's:-

http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4287

total cost per side
2 stands at £120
Brace and lighting gantry £25
Main brackets (half a bottle of whisky) £11 (it was a nice whisky)
£10 for some black spray paint
£166 per side !!

Dave Perry

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

N Webbers superb line array stand. Not suitable for smaller club/bar gigs but an outstanding bit of engineering:-

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.p ... msg_210975

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

Bills method as listed in the DR section:-
http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2709

[bgavin]

Remember the golden rule, any ideas shown here are just that, ideas. If you try something its at your own risk,best make sure your public indemnity is up to date.

For those living in the USA, this is absolutely mandatory.

Genius has limits, but foolhardiness knows no bounds. A fool with a nasty lawyer can ruin your life. If a kid sneaks past your armed guards, poisons the guard dogs, cuts a hole in the security fence, then climbs your stand and falls off, you are liable. Same logic applies to my swimming pool, hence the $1 million liability policy I carry.

If you have anything at all to lose, some lawyer will try his best to steal it from you. Even if he eventually loses, it will cost you a fortune to defend yourself. My personal experience in these lawsuits is, even when you win, the court decision requires you pay your own legal expenses.

[Mark Coward]

N Webbers superb line array stand. Not suitable for smaller club/bar gigs

His stand is designed for 3 DR280's, and is as small as practical to lift them over head height. From what I can tell, it wouldn't be difficult to use a shorter truss for two cabs. It's really a catch 22 for clubs with low ceiling height, no matter what stand/stack you use if you only have 9' or 10' feet height you're only going to be able to get 2 cabs at most over head high - maybe 3 with DR200's.

Another point, Nimrod's rig and the commercial rigs allow you to "tilt" the whole array as needed. The stand setups that you and Tim are using don't allow for much adjustment, granted that you probably won't need it in typical club venues. While line arrays do limit vertical dispersion, it seems to me that with a top cab 10' high, pointing straight out you're losing more of it's output than reaches the crowd when the audience is on a level surface. Typically we see the monster "J" arrays used in coliseums & amphitheaters, where the audience seating extends vertically so the top of the J is pointing at the nosebleed section.

[Tim A]

Another point, Nimrod's rig and the commercial rigs allow you to "tilt" the whole array as needed. The stand setups that you and Tim are using don't allow for much adjustment, granted that you probably won't need it in typical club venues. While line arrays do limit vertical dispersion, it seems to me that with a top cab 10' high, pointing straight out you're losing more of it's output than reaches the crowd when the audience is on a level surface. Typically we see the monster "J" arrays used in coliseums & amphitheaters, where the audience seating extends vertically so the top of the J is pointing at the nosebleed section.

See David's thread in Reviews. Both he and I have resolved that issue.

[Mark Coward]

Another point, Nimrod's rig and the commercial rigs allow you to "tilt" the whole array as needed. The stand setups that you and Tim are using don't allow for much adjustment, granted that you probably won't need it in typical club venues. While line arrays do limit vertical dispersion, it seems to me that with a top cab 10' high, pointing straight out you're losing more of it's output than reaches the crowd when the audience is on a level surface. Typically we see the monster "J" arrays used in coliseums & amphitheaters, where the audience seating extends vertically so the top of the J is pointing at the nosebleed section.

See David's thread in Reviews. Both he and I have resolved that issue.

I did read that thread, I still do not see how the whole array could be tilted. From your thread:

The cabinet that sets on the tray is straight all the time. The next one down is adjustable from straight to 3 degrees. The other cabs are fully adjustable from straight to 6 degrees.

Now, outside or in big rooms I can go considerably higher, up to 14-15' to the top of the highest cab, which gives me 6 cabs per side max. Any higher and an elevated stage must come into play.

With the middle cab and all cabs above it pointing straight out, I still think that you're losing the majority of output from the upper cabs when the array height is 10' or more and the audience is on level ground. I understand that you can adjust the angles between cabs, but you cannot tilt the whole array with this setup.

I'm not knocking what you guys have done, I think it's a good design and will work fine in small to medium clubs. I just don't think it would work as well with taller arrays, compared to being able to tilt/angle the whole array.

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

I tend to agree with you Mark. My arrangement is rigid in the ability to alter the angle of dangle of the cabs...but the reality for my gigs is that their is just not going to be a need to change that angle, so I went for a more simplistic fixed approach. Lower cab angled down at the close up/seated punters (4 or 8deg), upper cab firing straight out over the heads to get to the people at the back of the room.

Each and every design has its own compromise. Any design that has a fixed height is no good for the typical bar/club, so its critical to get a stand that can be adjusted in height to make the most out of the available headroom.

Dave

[Tim A]

I did read that thread, I still do not see how the whole array could be tilted. From your thread:

The cabinet that sets on the tray is straight all the time. The next one down is adjustable from straight to 3 degrees. The other cabs are fully adjustable from straight to 6 degrees.

But you didn't read this:

I had decided even before I saw David's setup to eliminate the tray part and make two separate pieces. By using a couple of different bolt hole arrangements I'll be able to angle the main cabinet down if I want.

It's easy enough to do, and the change was a product of your concern when I posted the original design. It could be set up to aim the main cab at any angle you want, and the other adjusted from there.

[Mark Coward]

But you didn't read this:

Actually I did read that, but it failed to register lol. I reckon that would work, possibly with an odd number of cabs it might overbalance with too much tilt. I do like the concept of supporting the array at mid-point, all of the winch-type designs require a stand that is taller than the height of the array. I was thinking to use some kind of pivot attachment, which should allow for easier on-the-fly adjustment of the overall array angle.

[DAVID_L_PERRY]

Another idea carried out by Korth for his DR280's. Very simple and stable and utilises the stand to carry the lighting tree:-

[gdougherty]

Soliciting Feedback on an idea I've had. Imagine a kid's swingset as you find them at playgrounds, but with the crossbar shortened up to about 2.5' across. I'm imagining the two legs of the sides would be braced and held together by a bar in the middle to prevent flexing and the two sides could be tied together by bars across the bottom. Some pulley hardware strapped to the top crossbar would allow a hanging assembly to be raised to the top height once the unit is assembled and flipped over on to it's base. Assembly on its side seems the only practical alternative, and the whole thing could be walked up and over into an upright position. Imagine two large A's angled towards each other with a short bar connecting the tops and two long bars connecting the bottom legs across the front and back. You could probably run a brace from front to back across the bottom as well.

The hanging array could then be secured by cables to the legs for stability and/or angling of the array. The nice part is that the whole assembly could be built from pipe components that would hang on the wall in a van and coupling pieces could pack into a box. You could also have alternate length piping to vary the stand height depending on the situation. I figured a 16' high assembly would allow for 4 DR280 to hang and still be up above 6' at the bottom. The weight of 4 DR280 should be enough to hold the whole thing down and stable in almost any wind.

[Tim A]

Not bad at all! Some comments:

Imagine a kid's swingset as you find them at playgrounds, but with the crossbar shortened up to about 2.5' across.

The shorter the span, the stronger it'd be. Make it only wide enough for the widest cabs you'll be using. In this case, 24" + an inch each side for clearance.

I'm imagining the two legs of the sides would be braced and held together by a bar in the middle to prevent flexing

Find some locking braces like those used on a table leg, only longer. Hinge each pair of legs together at the top. Then each side would fold up nice and neat, less assembly/tear down time.

the two sides could be tied together by bars across the bottom.

Or even chains, criss-crossed from leg to leg. All of the weight would be pushing out anyway. That would take a test try though.

Some pulley hardware strapped to the top crossbar would allow a hanging assembly to be raised to the top height once the unit is assembled and flipped over on to it's base.

You can buy 1,000 lb capacity boat winches for about $20. Mount one on one of the legs and run the cable to a pulley on top.

Assembly on its side seems the only practical alternative, and the whole thing could be walked up and over into an upright position.

Sounds right!

The nice part is that the whole assembly could be built from pipe components that would hang on the wall in a van and coupling pieces could pack into a box.

Think in terms of steel tubing. Pipe that size would be awfully heavy.

You could also have alternate length piping to vary the stand height depending on the situation. I figured a 16' high assembly would allow for 4 DR280 to hang and still be up above 6' at the bottom. The weight of 4 DR280 should be enough to hold the whole thing down and stable in almost any wind.

Most people don't have the capacity to haul something 16' long, so multiple sections, or better yet, telescoping sections would be a must. If you went with multiple sections you'd need a very solid coupler. I would not trust pipe threads with a side-load like that.

Also, 16 feet is really high. For stability you'd want at least a 1 on 3 ratio for leg stance. Figure a minimum of 5' w x 5' d for the legs with a 15' tall stand. Wider would be better.